U.S. Department of State Daily Press Briefing #41, 99-03-31
From: The Department of State Foreign Affairs Network (DOSFAN) at <http://www.state.gov>
1015
U.S. Department of State
Daily Press Briefing
I N D E X
Wednesday, March 31, 1999
Briefer: James P. Rubin
SERBIA (KOSOVO)
1 Relief Supplies for Albania and Macedonia/$ 25 Million in
Emergency Assistance
1 Refugee Assistance by the Military
1,5 Outflows and Numbers of Refugees / Albania / Montenegro /
Macedonia
2-3,9-11 Status of Kosovo / Milosevic's Claim to Kosovo /
Rambouillet Accords
2-5,6 Reports of Mass Explusions / Atrocities by Serb Forces
3,10 NATO's Decision to Expand Target List
5 Whereabouts of Ibrahim Rugova
6-7 Status of Yugoslav Embassy in Washington, D.C. /
Whereabouts of Diplomats
5,8,11 Stability / Situation in Albania / Macedonia / Montenegro
8-9 NATO Air Strikes / Refugee Outflow
11 Distribution of Relief Supplies / Prospects for Use of
Troops
12,15 Prospects for Use of Ground Troops
12 Reported Travel by Belgrade Officials to Iraq
RUSSIA
1,6,13 Deployment of Russian Ships to Mediterranean
6,13 Secretary's Contacts with Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov
11-12 Status of CFE Treaty Adaptation
PARAGUAY
13 Former President Cubas Receives Asylum in Brazil
13-14 Status of Asylum for General Oviedo
IRAQ
12 Reported Travel by Belgrade Officials to Iraq
15 US Support for Iraqi Opposition Groups
NORTH KOREA
15-16 Issue of Compensation / North Korea Missile Program
16 Prospects for Resumption of Talks
CHINA
16-17 Visit of Chinese Prime Minister's Visit
17 Secretary's Contact with Foreign Minister
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
DPB #41
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31, 1999, 12:45 P.M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MR. RUBIN: Welcome to the State Department briefing. I
have no opening statements, except to give you a couple of comments
on the humanitarian situation. Let me say that we have now sought
an additional $25 million in emergency assistance that the President
is now considering to provide relief supplies for the people in
Albania and Macedonia. The situation, obviously, on the refugee
side is not getting any better. We have asked for this additional
$25 million to try to assist in dealing with the refugee problems
in Albania and Macedonia. I think the Pentagon will have a lot
more information for you in a couple of hours.
With regard to assistance the military intends to provide, including
relief supplies, tents, logistics, logistical support by aircraft
and planning and logistics for relief operations in Albania and
Macedonia. Clearly, we are gearing up and working very quickly
and effectively, we hope, to deal with the increased size of the
refugee problem as it grows each day. On the numbers, let me say
according to our numbers now, over 580,000 have been either internally
displaced or forced to flee; 85,000 people have crossed into Albania;
20,000 into Montenegro; and at least 14,000 into Macedonia.
During initial flows, the majority were women, children and the
elderly; but now, UNHCR sees that mostly families are crossing.
The number of internally displaced persons in the countryside
is again believed to be in the hundreds of thousands, but it's
difficult to get an accurate assessment right now.
Given the nature of this refugee problem, the US Government is
gearing up in an emergency mode along the lines I described to
you - that is, both the $25 million that the State Department
is going to be asking for authority to draw down and provide to
UNHCR and other relief organizations and additional efforts that
I briefly described that the Pentagon will be in a position to
describe further later this afternoon.
QUESTION: Russian news agencies are reporting that Russian
war ships are heading towards the Mediterranean. Do you know anything
about that?
MR. RUBIN: Russia has informed Turkey that seven units
of the Black Sea fleet will transit the Bosphorus in two groups
in early April. We are obviously concerned by the signal such
a large deployment might send to Belgrade and other countries
in the region. While the Russian Foreign Ministry has made it
quite clear that Russia does not intend to become entangled in
the conflict in the Balkans - and President Yeltsin made that
very clear yesterday -- the deployments of these ships we don't
see as a particularly helpful gesture.
QUESTION: Can you elucidate any further on what you were
talking about yesterday when you were discussing the future of
Kosovo? Are we now post-Rambouillet and into something else; and
if so, what is that something else?
MR. RUBIN: Let me say that I know there's been a lot of
speculation about this in the newspapers and elsewhere from some
well-placed and some probably not-so-well-placed senior officials.
Let me say that it is a simple fact that the more President Milosevic
carries out these kinds of atrocities in Kosovo, the less the
international community can support his claims to sovereignty
over Kosovo. That is an analytical fact.
As far as our position is concerned, we still believe that the
interim solution embodied in Rambouillet is the best outcome because
it provides democratic self-government for the people of Kosovo,
and that self-government is ensured by a security presence.
I'm not going to speculate as to what the future might hold, other
than to say, that President Milosevic should understand that the
more this campaign goes on, the less likely the world is going
to support an outcome that President Milosevic would like to see.
He should be aware that the international community is moving
away from the political arrangements that President Milosevic
would like to see. But I'm not going to speculate and be specific
on any terms of art in the international lexicon, other to say
that it's simply an analytical fact that he is losing Kosovo.
QUESTION: Without describing it further, can you say has
the US Government, as well as its allies, come together on a possible
forum for dealing with a post-combat Kosovo?
MR. RUBIN: I don't have any new policy pronouncements as
far as the US Government's position on the status of Kosovo is
concerned.
QUESTION: Not to be contentious, but it appears that Milosevic
is, in fact, tightening his grip on Kosovo and not anywhere near
losing it. Even if there's no more ethnic Albanians there, I don't
see where you can say that there's a risk that he'll lose it when
all indications are that he's getting firmer control of it?
MR. RUBIN: What I'm suggesting to you, as the President
suggested yesterday, is that the international support for his
claim is decreasing, is being jeopardized. The international community
at Rambouillet supported Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo; that
was embodied in the accords. What I am saying to you is that,
internationally, that support is being jeopardized by the severity
of the atrocities that his forces are committing in Kosovo.
As far as what the situation on the ground is concerned, let me
say that NATO is determined to see this through. It is correct
that the Serbian offensive against the Kosovar Liberation Army
and the civilian population continues throughout Kosovo. In addition
to killings and forced expulsions, Serb forces are also engaged
in identity elimination - destroying of birth certificates, property
deeds and other documents. This eradicates evidence of the ethnic
Albanian presence in Kosovo and makes their return much more difficult.
Nevertheless, we are determined to see that the refugees are able
to return to their homes.
Refugees also report that Serb forces may have expelled up to
50,000 ethnic Albanians from the town of Pec and then burned and
looted shops and homes throughout the city.
Earlier today, the leader of the Kosovar Albanians spoke to the
State Department and indicated that there is another tragedy in
the making. That is in the Malisevo district, where approximately
50,000 to 75,000 people are being attacked by a combination of
Yugoslav forces, police forces and paramilitary forces. These
are civilians who are being shelled by artillery and tanks. Entire
villages are empty and they are being burned. There is a fear
on the part of the Kosovar Liberation Army, because of their inability
to confront the Serb forces, that these 50,000 to 75,000 people
may be captured by the Serbs.
So this is going on, and I think we've been quite clear and open
about what we know and what we understand to be going on there.
Nevertheless, NATO, as you know, yesterday made a decision to
expand the target list by broadening the list of targets of air
strikes in order to focus more directly on both the military forces
carrying out attacks on Kosovo and the institutions and facilities
that support them. No place where attacks on Kosovo are conceived
and planned will be immune from NATO air strikes.
We are determined to see this through. We are going to damage
and seriously disrupt Milosevic's forces and the capabilities
to conduct these kinds of atrocities and operations. At the end
of the day, when the dust settles, Milosevic is only losing international
support for his claim to Kosovo.
QUESTION: What KLA leader gave you that information?
MR. RUBIN: Mr. Thaci.
QUESTION: You talked to him again today?
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: Who spoke with him today?
MR. RUBIN: I did.
QUESTION: On that - and I don't mean to suggest that you're
not getting correct information - but we've gotten a report this
morning which, I believe, is the first independent report out
of Pristina in some days, saying that Thaci's claim yesterday
that 100,000 people were massed in the Pristina stadium --
MR. RUBIN: I don't make that claim. We didn't make that
claim.
QUESTION: Well, it's been referred to. Anyway, this report
says that -
MR. RUBIN: I never heard him say that.
QUESTION: He said it yesterday on German radio.
MR. RUBIN: He just hasn't said it to us -- 100,000 people
in a stadium.
QUESTION: Yes, in a Pristina stadium. Anyway, given the
fact that he said this - maybe not to you, but he said this --
and the fact of the matter is a reporter went there this morning
and said that it was empty and that there was no signs that anyone
in any large numbers at all had been there for the past couple
days at all, that the grass was intact and undisturbed, and it
was just deserted. How confident are you in the reports that you're
getting from him and others, and how comfortable are you repeating
them to us in this forum?
MR. RUBIN: We believe that the basic information about
the situation Malisevo is accurate. We have our own independent
corroboration that there is massive burning of houses. Mr. Thaci
has been quite clear with us that he is hearing reports -- he's
not saying that these things are facts. I'm sure an enterprising
reporter can debunk any report if you wait long enough. But I
think the reality is that reporters who are on the ground in Kosovo
and reporters on the ground in Albania have tended to corroborate
the vast majority of the information the KLA's provided about
the atrocities being conducted.
In fact, the reporting that I've seen from Albania and Macedonia,
from direct interviews with refugees has tended to corroborate
most of the information that we have received. I have no reason
to dispute a particular reporter's information about a soccer
stadium. But let me say this, our own information is rather dramatic
about this whole situation here.
US Government information is that prior to forced expulsion, Serbs
have looted the homes and businesses of ethnic Albanians and at
least 20 towns and villages. In addition, Serb soldiers have reportedly
occupied Albanian homes in Pristina. The refugees report widespread
burning of homes in 13 towns and countless villages throughout
Kosovo. This activity is not only more extensive then Serb destruction
last summer, it is more thorough. Many settlements are being totally
destroyed in an apparent attempt to ensure that the Albanian population
cannot return.
Refugees entering Albania claim that Serb forces are separating
military age men from the groups. NGOs continue to report that
people have been herded into sports stadiums in Pristina for detention,
while refugees and press reports indicate that as many as 20,000
ethnic Albanians were forced march from the town of Cirez. The
vast majority of refugees crossing international borders out of
Kosovo have been women and children. We are gravely concerned
by the whereabouts and fate of the missing men.
Refugees have provided accounts of summary executions in at least
20 towns and villages throughout Kosovo. Serb forces appear to
be targeting members of the Albanian Kosovar intelligencia including
lawyers, doctors and political leaders. In particular, UCK political
leaders who attended the Rambouillet talks are being targeted.
Following is a list of reported war crimes or violations of international
humanitarian law that occurred in many of the larger population
centers in Kosovo. In Bela Cervka, Serb forces reportedly killed
35 people and then dumped their bodies near the Bellaja River
between the Rogova and Bela Cervka railroad. By March 28, Serb
forces reportedly killed as many as 500 civilians. In Cirez, 20,000
Albanian Kosovars were reportedly used as human shields against
NATO bombings. In Dakovica, ethnic Albanians have reportedly been
executed by MUPP and paramilitary units; 70 bodies were found
in two houses; 33 Albanian bodies were found in a nearby river;
and men are being separated from women and children. There are
a whole list of other towns.
Later today I'm going to be able to provide you with a document
that summarizes our information and what we believe is credible.
I think there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that there
are terrible, terrible things going on in Kosovo, with men being
executed, women being raped and hundreds of thousands being forcibly
removed from their homes.
QUESTION: Are you dealing mostly with anecdotal information?
MR. RUBIN: Correct.
QUESTION: Okay, so not with --
MR. RUBIN: I mean, I can say this - we have independent
confirmation that there is widespread burning of homes and widespread
refugees being pushed out of Kosovo. We have that independently.
We're trying to give you the information and sourcing as best
we can. Clearly, there are some terrible, terrible things going
on, regardless of whether one particular report has yet to be
substantiated.
QUESTION: What about the whereabouts of people like Rugova
and --
MR. RUBIN: I have no information on that.
QUESTION: Nothing on Rugova?
MR. RUBIN: I have no information on that.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) rather disturbing images yesterday
of people in boxcars being turned back at the Macedonian border?
MR. RUBIN: We have been working with the Macedonian Government
during the course of the day, and it's my understanding that Ambassador
Hill has been working with the Macedonian Government and that
the situation has improved and that the Macedonian border is now
more or less open. There's been some times when it's been closed,
but now we understand, during the course of today, the its situation
has improved.
QUESTION: The subject of Russia - has the Secretary spoken
to Ivanov or any other senior Russian official in the last 24
hours?
MR. RUBIN: No.
QUESTION: Has the United States not gotten direct information
itself from Russia about this ship movement?
MR. RUBIN: We have no reason to dispute - on the ships?
QUESTION: On the ship movement, yes.
MR. RUBIN: I think that's been discussed in diplomatic
channels, yes.
QUESTION: I mean, has the United States asked Russia to
not go through with this deployment?
MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't be able to get into the details of
our diplomatic exchanges, but the matter's been discussed.
QUESTION: When you expressed concern about the signal that
this would send to Belgrade, what exactly are you afraid that
Belgrade will read from this? Are you worried that the Russians
would offer any kind of military support to them?
MR. RUBIN: Well, they've indicated that they would not.
But we just think, as a general matter, that this doesn't, in
the current context, send a helpful signal. That's our view.
QUESTION: Can you give us an overall number of how many
people you believe have been executed in the last week?
MR. RUBIN: I don't have a specific number. We have a series
of reports of different validity, and it's very hard to give an
overall number to a situation like that. Clearly, we know that
in the last year thousands were killed in Kosovo; and clearly,
the numbers are much higher than that now.
QUESTION: Could you also say whether the atrocities are
being carried out just by Serb forces, by the military, or are
individual Serb citizens taking up arms at this point?
MR. RUBIN: Well, what we have said is the Serb forces,
the so-called MUPP, the police and the paramilitaries, including
Arkan, are involved in the activity in Kosovo.
QUESTION: Could you give us an update on the status of
the Yugoslav Embassy in Washington? And while you're at it, the
American Embassy in Belgrade?
MR. RUBIN: With respect to the American Embassy in Belgrade,
I don't have any new information to provide. The Swedish are our
protecting power there, and all our employees are gone. There
are some foreign service nationals or local employees who may
be working to try to limit the extent to which there might be
damage to the property.
With respect to the Yugoslav Embassy here, we followed our standard
diplomatic practice for cases of broken relations. The government
of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia announced on March 25 its
decision to break diplomatic relations with the United States
effective immediately. We informed the representative on March
26 that the mission would cease operations, vacate its diplomatic
premises and send home all personnel who are not part of a future
interests section by midnight last night. Setting a date by which
the premises must be vacated is a standard practice. The mission
was given a reasonable and appropriate period of time in which
to do so.
In order to fulfill its obligations under the Vienna Convention
on Diplomatic Relations to protect diplomatic properties of states
with which relations are broken, the US Government took formal
custody of the former Yugoslav chancery and ambassador's residence
at midnight on March 30. The US will respect and protect the properties
without prejudice to the eventual settlement of property issues
among all the successor states to the former Yugoslavia.
QUESTION: Can I follow up on that? Are all their diplomats
now in New York?
MR. RUBIN: It is our understanding that those individuals
who no longer are part of the FRY's representation in the United
States have left the country. I can't get into the details of
all of the people, other than to simply say that a very small
number remain. We have granted Belgrade's request to have one
individual fulfill diplomatic and consular functions with a small
support staff as an interests section operating in the embassy
of a protecting power. At present, no arrangements for a protecting
power have been made. So the few that are left, I think are in
their homes not in the chancery.
QUESTION: But you say that the rest have left the country
- they're not in New York?
MR. RUBIN: I can't give you a detailed list of where each
one of those diplomats go; that wouldn't be appropriate.
QUESTION: But they left the country?
MR. RUBIN: My understanding from the information provided,
have left the country is what I said, yes.
QUESTION: Jamie, wasn't the issue of that embassy settled
at Dayton? Are you saying you're now reopening the issue of who
owns which embassies?
MR. RUBIN: I'll have to get a legal answer to that question.
QUESTION: Can you distribute that on paper, please?
MR. RUBIN: I don't know what form it will come, but I'll
try to get you an answer.
QUESTION: How concerned is the US about the stability of
the Albanian and Macedonian Governments? I know that the Italian
Government is sending in a police force of some size. They may
send in other, perhaps, military troops as well as a peacekeeping
force. Is the US at all considering sending in any kind of a peacekeeping
force such as that in Macedonia?
MR. RUBIN: I'm not aware of any such plans. Clearly, the
situation is difficult for them with the inflow of these refugees.
That's why we're working so hard with the Pentagon and the White
House and the other parts of the US Government to develop an emergency
plan to deal with the refugees so that the refugee problem doesn't
become destabilizing. But I'm not aware of any peacekeeping plan.
QUESTION: A week ago when President Clinton stood in front
of a map of the Balkans and told Americans that one of the reasons
that we needed to intervene in Kosovo was to prevent a wider war,
what was he talking about? Was he talking about the flow of refugees?
Was he referring to Serb troops actually going after refugees
in other countries?
MR. RUBIN: Well, again, I think you're getting into cause
and effect here. Let me take this opportunity to do something
I rarely do. I've heard a lot in the last few days here in the
briefing room and elsewhere and a lot of the commentary about
cause and effect and NATO bombing causing certain things.
Let me say, there was an article in today's Washington Post
by Mr. Finn, Peter Finn, interviewing the Kosovar Albanian refugees
who have left Kosovo under the most difficult of circumstances
-- that is the people who are actually affected by what President
Milosevic is doing, not the people sitting here in Washington
-- the armed chair strategists -- who said, "If NATO did
not bomb, the Serbs would destroy us anyway," Ismet Kabashi,
a Kosovar refugee.
I think that quote sums up for the world what has gone on here:
the Serbs had a plan; they began the offensive before the air
strikes; they intensified it; they are responsible; and any suggestion
that anyone is responsible for what the Serb plan was is perverse
in the extreme.
With respect to your question on the wider war, we are dealing
with a situation where President Milosevic has tried to expel
hundreds of thousands of people from Kosovo. That is a concern
that we had, that is a reason why Kosovo is important to the United
States, because the effect of an un-responded to refugee flow
where we're not dealing with the refugees in Albania, were not
dealing with the refugees in Macedonia, is the potential instability
of those countries and all that flows with that. That is why our
military and the State Department and the AID Office of Disaster
Relief are spending so much energy trying to deal with these refugees
so that instability is not created.
QUESTION: Not to play devil's advocate here, but, I mean,
couldn't we have done that anyway if we hadn't gone in with military
force? Wouldn't we have been able to provide humanitarian assistance
to these countries?
MR. RUBIN: Absolutely, and we had a plan to provide humanitarian
assistance to these countries. What we couldn't do, what we think
would be wrong to not do, is to allow President Milosevic to implement
his intent and capability to conduct these terrible, terrible
atrocities on the people on Kosovo with impunity, to allow him
to get away with murder. We were not prepared to allow that to
happen. That is why NATO has conducted its air strikes. The people
on the ground who are suffering are telling us that the NATO air
strikes are music to their ears, and that if NATO did not bomb,
"the Serbs would destroy us anyway."
QUESTION: I want to go back to the issue of the status
of Kosovo. Yesterday, President Clinton talked about that Milosevic
was losing credibility, Rambouillet and so forth. You mentioned
the same thing today; you've spoken about it again. There are
reports out of Russia that they're aware of a plan the United
States has to create Kosovo as an independent entity. It sounds
like -
MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't believe your Russian news reporting
about American plans.
QUESTION: But it's beginning to sound like - you said that
Milosevic is losing --
MR. RUBIN: I believe the Russian news reporting has been
focused on the fact that it's NATO bombing that is moving refugees
out of Kosovo, so I would bear that in mind.
QUESTION: Well, you said the international community is
beginning to -Milosevic is losing credibility with the international
community. The United States is part of that international community.
It looks as if the United States is going down that particular
road toward Kosovo independence.
MR. RUBIN: As you know from the earlier questioning, I'm
not going to be specific on any question of status other than
to say that we think that the democratic self-government, backed
up by a security presence envisaged at Rambouillet is a perfectly
appropriate solution to this problem. But the fact of the matter
is that increasingly, people around the world are beginning to
cast doubt and cast into jeopardy President Milosevic's claims
[to Kosovo]. That is an analytical fact of life.
QUESTION: Was there any discussion about arming the KLA
so they can defend themselves?
MR. RUBIN: That is not going to solve the problem in the
near term. That is something that would take many, many months.
QUESTION: I'm also following up.
MR. RUBIN: A lot of follow-ups today.
QUESTION: A lot of follow-ups. Given the number of years
that this Administration has dealt with Milosevic, would it be
fair to say that you all in this case, amazingly enough, might
have underestimated the ferocity with which he has carried out
this plan? Were you startled at the sheer terror and the strength
of --
MR. RUBIN: I think anyone who's been in this government
during the Bosnia episode could not be surprised by the ferocity
of Serb forces when dealing with civilians. We had over a million
refugees in Bosnia; we had mass murder by the tens of thousands
in places like Srbenica and elsewhere. So I don't think the barbarity
of Serb forces in dealing with civilians is something that comes
as a surprise to anybody.
With respect to this particular operation, remember what the situation
is. Last fall there were hundreds of thousands of people sent
into the hills; thousands of people killed over the last year.
In January, dozens of people were murdered at Racak. Even as the
Serbs were negotiating at Rambouillet, we had evidence - and the
Kosovar Albanian provided some of it to us - of a Serb intent
and capability to conduct a massive offensive. That offensive
began before the NATO bombs fell, and their capabilities were
never in doubt to cause great havoc.
The question for us was, what do we do? Ground troops were clearly
ruled out. The President made clear that he has no intention of
pursuing ground troops. So then we were faced with two simple
choices when this offensive began, and that's all -- anyone who
suggests that there is another choice is simply not being candid
-- to stand by and watch this offensive occur without taking any
action, to simply let Milosevic's brutal forces conduct a massive
campaign of expulsion and murder with the West doing nothing;
or conducting the kind of air campaign that we are now conducting.
The decision of the West was not to stand by, was to conduct this
kind of air campaign to make sure that at least the Serb forces
pay a heavy, heavy price. And now the campaign has been stepped
up and we are going to make sure they pay a heavy price, his capabilities
to conduct this kind of operation are going to be damaged and
some of them are going to be destroyed. Over time that will eliminate
his ability to sustain these kinds of terrible atrocities in Kosovo.
QUESTION: A follow on the earlier question. When you say
that the international community's support for the Rambouillet
accord is beginning to diminish, could you be specific as to whether
or not here in Washington support for the accord, or whether or
not there have been any sort of discussions as to other options
or other variations of the accord that have come up; and whether
or not in your conversations with Thaci - you said you've spoken
to him today - or in recent days with other leaders, if you've
talked about the post-bombing Kosovo?
MR. RUBIN: I'm not going to be drawn out into speculating
as to what the future might hold for Kosovo, other than to say
that it's a simple analytical fact that here in Washington and
in capitals all over the world, support for Milosevic's claim
to Kosovo is being jeopardized.
As far as where we stand, we continue to believe that the idea
of self-government backed up by a security force, embodied in
Rambouillet, is an appropriate diplomatic and political solution.
QUESTION: Can we go back to the humanitarian? You ticked
off some things at the top there; you said the Pentagon had more
information. Since you raised it, there are some people who are
saying there is consideration for either moving some American
troops from Bosnia or sending some new troops there, maybe from
Europe somewhere, to help tend to the refugees - set up tent camps,
help feed them and that sort of thing.
MR. RUBIN: That would be an appropriate question to be
addressed to my colleagues at the Pentagon. Let me simply say
that EUCOM, the European Command, is working on plans to assist
in the distribution of the relief supplies necessary. But that
would be an appropriate subject for my colleagues at the Pentagon.
QUESTION: Jamie, on the refugees again, does the US believe
it's part of Milosevic's plan to send refugees to certain countries
or places like Montenegro to create pockets of instability that
he can take advantage of and build his power?
MR. RUBIN: I don't think it wise for anybody to try to
determine with any level of confidence what exactly goes through
that mind when these plans are put forward. Clearly, there is
an attempt to move Kosovar Albanians out of Kosovo. With respect
to whether it's part of some partition plan, I think the nature
of the forced expulsion being Kosovo-wide suggests that that isn't
necessarily part of the plan.
As far as whether it's designed to destabilize the neighbors or
simply move the Kosovar Albanians out, again, it's a question
of intent that it is very hard to ascertain. Either way, it's
doing terrible, terrible damage to the people of Kosovo.
QUESTION: I know that one of the leaders of Montenegro
was saying that he believed that by sending them to directly to
Montenegro and not allowing them to go other places, that that
was definitely a -
MR. RUBIN: Well, they're going to a lot of places - Macedonia,
Montenegro, Albania; so it's not just in Montenegro. We continue
to believe there are indications of Belgrade's desire to disrupt
and interfere with the smooth functioning of the government of
President Djukanovic. We continue to believe and support that
government and what it's trying to do. That is something that
is very much on our minds.
QUESTION: There was a report out of Moscow a little earlier
to the extent that - quoting a US official saying that the Russians
had agreed to a CFE agreement and that it was likely to be signed
in Geneva.
MR. RUBIN: I know that the CFE negotiations have been continuing
in a variety of locations, and that is, I think, a very clear
example that we and the Russians continue to work together on
some matters even as we disagree on others. But I don't have any
information on the status of the CFE adaptation efforts that have
been going on.
QUESTION: Within the past hour, a distinguished group of
ambassadors - Kirkpatrick, Carlucci, Abramowitz and others - said
that urgent planning should begin for the introduction of ground
troops in the Balkans. Is there any rethinking here along those
lines?
MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't be able to comment on this building's
thinking as a rule. I can simply repeat the President's very clear
statement that we have no intention of sending ground troops into
a combat situation. Unless and until there's a peace agreement
to implement, the US has no intention to send in ground troops.
QUESTION: (Inaudible.)
MR. RUBIN: I don't plan to parse that for you.
QUESTION: There are reports that a number of Belgrade officials
are in Iraq learning what they can about dealing with American
and NATO offense. At the very least, Saddam has learned how to
stretch a defeat into a long, protracted situation. Does it concern
you that the Belgrade officials are --
MR. RUBIN: Well, those situations are never exactly the
same. It wouldn't surprise us if the rogues got together in their
gallery to discuss the fact that they are isolated from the rest
of the world and have been subjected to NATO air strikes and try
to work together. That is traditionally what happens when you're
outside the mainstream of the international community; the only
people you can talk to are other outcasts.
QUESTION: Jamie, when you said NATO is determined to see
this --
MR. RUBIN: And obviously, we're watching that very carefully.
QUESTION: When NATO is determined to see this through,
do you want Kosovo to be made safe for the refugees to return?
MR. RUBIN: Yes, that's a political objective.
QUESTION: That's a political objective. What means --
MR. RUBIN: Military objectives have been very clear, and
they're not changing, they're the same; which is to do serious
damage to his capabilities to conduct offensive operations. Our
political objectives also remain the same: to try to get a peaceful
settlement; to try to get the refugees back who have been kicked
out; and to try to ensure, thereby, the stability of the region.
QUESTION: And on the Russian ships, you raised concern
here at the podium. Has that concern been registered in communications
with Moscow? Has there been any formal demarche of any kind?
MR. RUBIN: I responded to a question about that earlier,
and I indicated I believe this has been discussed in diplomatic
channels. But I wouldn't be in a position to provide detail about
that.
QUESTION: Will there be any kind of formal communication?
MR. RUBIN: As I said, it's being discussed in diplomatic
channels and I wouldn't be able to provide more detail about that.
QUESTION: Why don't you think Foreign Minister Ivanov is
responding to your attempts to --
MR. RUBIN: You again, as yesterday, imply that we have
tried to call Foreign Minister Ivanov, which hasn't happened.
QUESTION: Okay, well, you said yesterday and the day before
that the Secretary was trying to get in touch with him.
MR. RUBIN: No, I didn't say that the Secretary was trying
to get in touch with him and wasn't able to. That's simply not
something I said, and it hasn't happened.
QUESTION: So she doesn't want to get in touch with him?
MR. RUBIN: She hasn't sought to get in touch with him.
She received a very full and complete read-out from the German
Foreign Minister about what happened during the meeting with Foreign
Minister Ivanov, Prime Minister Primakov and President Milosevic.
QUESTION: She feels that there's no need to talk to him?
MR. RUBIN: Not to get the details of that meeting. I'm
sure she will talk to him at the appropriate time.
QUESTION: Paraguay - do you have any comments regarding
the political asylum who was granted to General Oviedo in Argentina?
MR. RUBIN: Former Paraguayan President Cubas, who resigned
Sunday night, yesterday asked for and received asylum from Brazil
and flew to Brazil. The new Paraguayan Government has indicated
that Cubas, as a former president, is entitled to immunity from
prosecution as he as a senator for life. We did not play a role
in Cubas request for asylum or Brazil's decision to grant asylum.
QUESTION: I am asking you about Oviedo, the general.
MR. RUBIN: I don't have any comment on that.
QUESTION: There is a lot of reports, also, in American
media saying that the general got asylum because the United States
intervened with the government of Argentina to get that.
MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't be able to comment on a comment about
something I'm not able to comment on.
(Laughter.)
QUESTION: There have been reports over the last year dating
back to last February, I believe it was, when then Richard Gelbard
who was in charge of our - was the US Special Envoy to the Balkans
had some sort of an interview while he was in Belgrade and called
the KLA a terrorist group. There are some who have said that that
then encouraged Milosevic to go forward with a campaign of ethnic
cleansing in Kosovo. Is that the position of the US Government?
MR. RUBIN: I would urge those who are continuing to seek
scapegoats to place the blame where it belongs -- on President
Milosevic for the horrible campaign that he's been conducting.
It's inconceivable to me that one comment by an American official
would justify or would be part of any decision-making to conduct
a massive campaign of expulsion and attack. People should stop
looking for scapegoats, start listening to the Kosovar Albanians
who are very clear that "if NATO did not bomb, the Serbs
would destroy us anyway," and put the blame where it belongs
on President Milosevic for orchestrating this horrible policy.
QUESTION: I asked kind of a similar question yesterday.
This is about the rhetoric coming out of Brussels, NATO. I know
you don't want to talk about this, but it's gone from worse since
the end of the Second World War to Cambodia, and now today it's
suddenly Orwellian. I'm just wondering, how far does one turn
up this rhetoric before something major changes in the policy?
MR. RUBIN: If you want to ask me to do a compare and contrast
or a constructive critique of my colleagues in NATO, who have
a tough enough job as it is, it's a subject that I don't think
is appropriate for public discussion. They have made their points.
They have made clear the nature of these horrible events that
Milosevic is directing. I've made my points about what we think
is going on, and everybody has a different way of making the point.
I will continue to make it my way, and they will continue to make
it their way.
QUESTION: Well, my question is, how far does the level
of the rhetoric have to rise before something fundamentally changes
in the NATO policy in terms of doing more to stop -
MR. RUBIN: The policy continues. The policy is one where
the NATO allies are determined to see this through. They're going
to see this bombing campaign through until one of two things happens
-- either Milosevic reverses course or his forces are seriously
damaged. That is the policy. In the meanwhile, we'll be dealing
with the humanitarian situation as best we can, a humanitarian
situation created by President Milosevic and his forces. That
is our policy, rhetoric aside.
QUESTION: Can we go to Iraq? The efforts to spend the authorized
money to support the opposition -- $7 million or whatever it is
-- how is that going?
MR. RUBIN: I don't have any new information on that. I
could get it for the record for you.
QUESTION: Are you all continuing forward with that effort?
MR. RUBIN: Absolutely.
QUESTION: Your policy in Iraq to degrade his ability to
build weapons of mass destruction -
MR. RUBIN: Containment until regime changes is our policy
in Iraq.
QUESTION: Is that policy bearing fruit? Are you seeing
any efforts by him to break out of his box?
MR. RUBIN: We continue to believe that the containment-until-regime-change
policy is working.
QUESTION: Back to Kosovo, despite President Clinton's insistence
that we're not going to be sending ground troops, as George mentioned
there's a growing chorus that that's exactly what's going to be
needed. As you said yesterday, Milosevic seems to have considerable
support among the people. So, therefore, any ground troops that
go in probably will not be greeted as liberators.
MR. RUBIN: So now you're asking me to speculate about the
efficacy of a policy that we have no intention of pursuing? That's
even worse than a hypothetical.
QUESTION: We've heard reports that the North Koreans are
asking for $1 billion. Earlier we heard reports, $1 billion paid
out over three years; today we hear reports, $1 billion per year
for three years. Can you clarify the number?
MR. RUBIN: I'm certainly not going to clarify the North
Koreans claim or statements that have been made in private discussions.
If they want to clarify it, they're welcome to. We continue to
have serious concerns about North Korea's development, testing
and export of missiles and missile technology. We are seeking
tight constraints on these questions. With regard to your question
from yesterday, we have made clear that we oppose further North
Korean launches of long range missiles. This includes launches
intended to orbit satellites.
As is recognized by the MTCR, the Missile Technology Control Regime,
space launch vehicles and their technology are virtually interchangeable
with ballistic missiles. Any rocket capable of putting up a satellite
is also inherently capable of delivering weapons of mass destruction.
As far as compensation is concerned, our policy remains the same.
We're not going to provide compensation to stop them from doing
what they shouldn't do.
QUESTION: (Inaudible.)
MR. RUBIN: I gave a report yesterday. There's nothing new
to report today.
QUESTION: Any word on the talks resuming -- any sort of
time frame?
MR. RUBIN: No, I have no new day for you, other than an
intention to continue the talks.
QUESTION: Is it a violation of the MCTR for a country,
even though it's not a signatory, to launch a communication satellite?
MR. RUBIN: No, the MTCR deals with capabilities. As my
somewhat educated layman's understanding of this is, the standard
used is a payload of 500 kg going 300 km. That payload size, regardless
of whether it's a satellite or a mock weapon of mass destruction
or a real weapon of mass destruction, what you're trying to do
is get at the ability of countries to deliver a payload large
enough to carry a weapon of mass destruction 300 km.
QUESTION: It's your concerns about the North Korean intentions
itself that make you concerned about them attempting to launch
a communication satellite, because that's not generally something
that one country will (inaudible) on another. I mean, doesn't
every country have a right to launch communications satellite?
MR. RUBIN: We believe that in the case of North Korea,
which is not a member of the Missile Technology Control Regime,
that they should not be testing missiles of this range with this
payload. That is our view because it's destabilizing.
QUESTION: But just to launch a satellite, a communications
satellite?
MR. RUBIN: Because of inherent ability to interchange satellites
with weapons of mass destruction; that is the reason.
QUESTION: Quick questions, one, as you know, the Chinese
Prime Minister Zhu Rongji is supposed to come into town next week.
I'm wondering if Secretary Albright has been in touch at all with
the Chinese Government, and whether you would anticipate that
that trip would go forward if the bombing mission is still going?
MR. RUBIN: We have no indication that the trip isn't going
forward. She's been in touch with Foreign Minister Tang on a number
of subjects recently, and we have no indication that the trip
isn't going forward.
QUESTION: On another matter, you had gone into some detail
yesterday as to the gathering of evidence and the fact that the
State Department is going to be turning over evidence to the War
Crimes Tribunal. I'm just wondering if you could tell me a little
bit about the office and the number of people here at the State
Department who are devoted full-time to this effort.
MR. RUBIN: Well, we have not only people in the Intelligence
and Research Bureau, people in the European Bureau, but also Ambassador
David Scheffer, who is Secretary Albright's Special Ambassador
for War Crimes, who has an office of several people who work on
this full-time. So there are significant resources here at the
Department that will be going towards coordinating the government's
efforts to make evidence available to the War Crimes Tribunal
on that subject.
QUESTION: Thank you.
(The briefing concluded at 1:30 P.M.)
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