Subject: U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE DAILY PRESS BRIEFING (MARCH 20, 1995)
From: "Demetrios E. Paneras" <dep@bu.edu>
 
Edited by <dep@bu.edu>.  Removed parts that did not refer to the turkish
incursion into Iraq.
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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
95/03/20 DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
OFFICE OF THE SPOKESMAN



                       U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
                         DAILY PRESS BRIEFING

                               I N D E X

                       Monday, March 20, 1995


                                       Briefer: Christine Shelly

[...]

TURKEY
Report of Turkish Incursion in Iraq ..................2-7
--Secretary Christopher Contact with Turkish FM ......2,4
--Potential Impact on Operation Provide Comfort ......4
--Possibility of Violation of International Law/
    U.S./State Department Position ...................3,4-5,11
--Possibility of Use of U.S. Arms ....................6,11
--Definition of Protected Zone .......................3

IRAQ
Detention of Two Americans in Baghdad ................6-10
--Lack of Access by ICRC/Polish Authorities ..........6
--Possibility of Link to Sanctions Relief ...........7
--UNIKOM Investigation of Incident ...................9
Report of Iraqi Build-Up of Military Capabilities ....7-8

[...]

                       U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
                         DAILY PRESS BRIEFING

                                             DPC #37

                  MONDAY, MARCH 20, 1995, 1:12 P. M.
                (ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)


[...]

     Q     Christine, what has the State Department been telling the  
Government of Turkey about the Kurdish situation?

     MS. SHELLY:  We have reports that the Turkish troops have crossed  
into northern Iraq over the weekend in an operation directed at the  
Kurdistan Workers Party, the PKK, at the camps along the Iraqi-Turkish  
border.  The operation is reportedly supported by artillery, armor,  
planes and helicopters.

     The Secretary was called this morning by his counterpart in Turkey.   
He was informed of the operation.  In response to receiving this  
information, the Secretary expressed his very strong hope that the  
Turkish operation would be of limited duration and limited in scope, and  
that everything possible could be done to protect innocent lives.

     Q     Is it a reasonable expectation that that type of offensive  
would not bring large civilian losses; that even if you're sympathetic  
to the operation, that there would be a lot of people hurt who shouldn't  
be hurt?

     MS. SHELLY:  As is very often the case in that type of operation,  
it's very difficult at times to avoid civilian collateral damage.   
Certainly, we are very mindful of the fact that the PKK is a vicious  
terrorist organization which itself is very guilty of human rights  
violations.

     Nonetheless, we hope and expect that recognized standards of human  
rights will be observed in this and all other military activities in the  
area.  The Turkish Government has assured us that it will make that  
effort to try and avoid civilian casualties, and they have also informed  
us that the operation is taking place away from major concentrations of  
refugees.

     Q     Christine, is this supposedly a protected zone?  Isn't the  
United States and its allies involved in trying to protect this from  
outsiders coming in and bombing and blowing things up?

     MS. SHELLY:  It is supposed to be a safe zone, as you're aware.   
It's not the first time that such incursions have happened.  The most  
recent one which appears to have occurred of this size was October,  
1992.  When operations of this type have taken place before, the Turkish  
forces have withdrawn from northern Iraq relatively rapidly.  We  
certainly hope that this will be the case this time.  And even with the  
announcements of their own actions underway, the Turkish Government has  
continued to state its support for Iraq's territorial integrity.

     Q     If Saddam Husayn had 35,000 troops rolling into this zone in  
the southern part of the northern zone, would that be acceptable to the  
United States, saying that they were going after terrorists?

     MS. SHELLY:  To make the comparison between the two I don't think  
is a valid one.  Any troop movements or concentrated troop movements by  
Saddam Husayn or Iraq would obviously be of concern to us.  I think it's  
a difficult situation for the Turks.  They face attacks on their own  
territory, and they also face all of the problems associated with PKK  
actions against them.

     But, again, it's a situation where I think you have to couple the  
threats which the PKK represents with the very obvious human rights  
considerations as well.  I'm sure that the Turkish Government will be  
very mindful of our views on this, as well as the views of the  
international community as they conduct this operation.

     Mark.

     Q     Christine, just to follow that up, isn't it really a fact  
that in this case the word "protection" means protection against Saddam  
Husayn and the Iraqi forces and not protection against Turkey?

     MS. SHELLY:  I don't think it's really my role to stand here and  
define the protection.  Certainly the Iraqi actions against Kurdish  
concentrations of the population are also very well-known, and they're  
also obviously something that we consider to be another indication of  
the lack of respect for human rights by Saddam Husayn and his regime.

     Q     To follow that up, does the United States view -- take the  
position that it has to allow Turkish activity in the Kurdish zone as a  
condition for -- as a price for future Turkish cooperation in the  
protection zone?

     MS. SHELLY:  No, that would not be our position.

     Q     Isn't this type of incursion a violation of international  
law?

     MS. SHELLY:  I'm not a lawyer.  I'd have to check and see what the  
lawyers would say on that.

     Q     It's pertinent because you're condoning it, and you could  
possibly be condoning a violation of international law.

     MS. SHELLY:  I didn't condone it.  I acknowledged that it was going  
on, and I also stressed what we've said in response to the Turkish  
Foreign Minister's information being passed to the Secretary.  We also  
are aware of the fact that operations of this type have taken place  
before.  But I certainly don't think that what I said condoned it.

     Q     In his conversations with his counterpart, did the Secretary  
ask if they asked Iraqi permission for this incursion -- this operation?

     MS. SHELLY:  I don't know.  I don't have any information on that  
specific point.

     Q     Is Operation Comfort affected in any way by this?

     MS. SHELLY:  Operation Comfort takes place in cooperation with the  
Turkish Government, and of course the other coalition partners.  There  
are not any operations today as a result of the Turkish military  
activities in the area.  We do remain concerned about the potential  
impact of the Turkish operations on Operation Provide Comfort's ongoing  
security and humanitarian relief programs.

     These are concerns that we have expressed to the Turks.  We have  
been able to confirm that the official Americans who are involved in  
this relief effort are safe and accounted for, and we're also seeking to  
contact the NGOs in northern Iraq.

     Q     What is your understanding of the specific reasons why this  
incursion took place at this size at this time?

     MS. SHELLY:  I think that's a question that's probably most  
appropriately addressed to the Turks.  I don't know specifically if the  
Turkish Foreign Minister indicated why he felt that it was necessary to  
move at this precise time.  But I think in any case, all of the factors  
concerned certainly affected the timing of the Turkish decision.

     Q     Did the Secretary not ask why this ally that we give millions  
of dollars to every year did this at this time?

     MS. SHELLY:  I don't have other specific details related to his  
conversation to share with you at this point.

     Q     Christine, that's germane to any legal -- any international  
legal question, because there is a principle of "hot pursuit," and it  
would be interesting and probably significant if the Turks gave some --  
made out some case for provocation that they had to go across the border  
in hot pursuit to right a wrong.

     So it isn't a Turkish question.  The United States -- you say you  
haven't condoned this -- you're certainly very sympathetic to what the  
Turks have done, and again I would like to raise Sid's question.  You  
have a legal adviser and the question would be:  Are the Turks acting in  
compliance with international law?  And, if so, how do you justify a  
border crossing?

     MS. SHELLY:  On the legal point, I don't think it's the job of the  
Spokesman to just offer an opinion or do an off-the-cuff on violations  
of international law.  Let me take that particular part of your  
questioning under advisement, and I'll check with our legal adviser on  
that particular point.

     Q     Let me ask you something related, because there has been  
increasing activity by the Kurds against the Saddam Husayn Government,  
and that's not something that displeases the State Department, as long  
as it doesn't divide Iraq, as I understand it.

     Does this Turkish operation -- how can this operation be kept  
separate from that?  Doesn't this muffle what the Kurds are doing  
against Saddam Husayn?  I mean, how can you divide that territory so  
neatly and approve of one thing while another thing is going on that you  
have mixed feelings about?

     MS. SHELLY:  But I haven't said that we approve that.

     Q     I know you haven't from the podium, but you know and I know -
-

     MS. SHELLY:  I have acknowledged that it is going on --

     Q     -- that the U.S. Government approves of the Kurdish  
resistance, because they see that as one of the -- in fact, that's what  
you briefed King Fahd about, so he knows it if we don't -- because one  
of the things you want -- and that's part of your description, and your  
happy description -- the State Department's, I mean -- of Iraq being  
unstable.  You're sort of hoping it will get so unstable that Saddam  
Husayn will go away, and the Kurds happen to be the cutting edge right  
now, even more than the Shi'ites.

     Doesn't this interfere with that type of situation, which the State  
Department isn't unpleased with -- displeased with?

     MS. SHELLY:  Barry, I think that that's going to require me to take  
a little more comprehensive look at the Kurdish situation in the context  
of Iraq, so I'd like to come back to that.

     Q     Did the Turks use American arms in their incursion?

     MS. SHELLY:  I don't know.  I don't have information on that.

     Q     Can you check?

     MS. SHELLY:  I'll check.

     Q     Because I believe under American export control conditions,  
there are certain things they cannot do with the American arms legally,  
and maybe you could get a determination whether this is the case.

     MS. SHELLY:  I will check into that point.

     Q     Christine, you said that you did not condone what the Turks  
are doing, but you also are pointedly not condemning it as well.  Is  
that correct?

     MS. SHELLY:  What I have done is indicate to you the manner in  
which we were informed, and acknowledge our understanding of what it is  
which is going on, and also indicate the expressions of concern and hope  
regarding how this is handled that was relayed by the Secretary.  I  
think that's what I would like to leave it at.

     Betsy.

     Q     How would you interpret the fact that neither us nor the Red  
Cross nor anyone else has been able to talk with the Americans that have  
been held in Iraq now for a week?

     MS. SHELLY:  We, of course, do not have any official presence in  
Iraq.  As far as we know, the two individuals in question are being held  
in Baghdad.  We certainly regret very much the fact that to our  
knowledge the ICRC, as well as the Polish authorities -- who, I think as  
you know, are our protecting power in Iraq -- that they have not been  
provided access to the two individuals who are being held.

     We think that having access to them, especially by the ICRC, is  
certainly well-established international practice.  We certainly think  
it is highly regrettable that they have not let those who might seek to  
have contact with them have that contact.

     Q     Do you see any evidence that they may be trying to hold out  
for sanctions relief in holding these people?  Other countries,  
including even the Pope, have said that they think it's time to lift  
some of the sanctions.  Do we think that this may be tied?

     MS. SHELLY:  It may be, as far as Iraq's own thinking.  They may  
think they might have something to gain in trying to link their release  
to the easing of sanctions.  We've certainly seen that as one possible  
theory.  It's certainly not our view at all.  The detention of American  
citizens is strictly a consular matter.  It should not be linked to the  
sanction question or any other question.

     All indications surrounding the events of this was that the  
incident was entirely a result of innocent mistakes.  We believe that it  
should be resolved expeditiously based on humanitarian grounds and on  
those grounds alone.

     Bill.

     Q     With regard to Iraq and reports specifically that Iraq is  
reconstructing its munitions capability, its military capability, it  
seems it would be a very poor time to ease up on sanctions.  Does the  
State Department have some statement of policy with regard to this  
build-up of munition, or, for that matter, the attitude of the Gulf  
States regarding this problem?

     MS. SHELLY:  We have always said that we believe that Iraq should  
benefit from sanctions relief only when all of the U.N. Security Council  
Resolutions have been complied with.  That is still definitely our  
position.

     We're aware of the fact that it is not a position which is embraced  
by every other country, including a couple of members of the Security  
Council who believe that a partial compliance should or could be  
rewarded and that that might serve as a stimulus to Iraq to perhaps move  
on with compliance in other directions.  We certainly don't think that  
Iraq's record on this is a strong one, and one in which we think we  
should just rely on a kind of blind trust to get them to take certain  
actions.

     The best kind of pressure that we can exercise is one in which Iraq  
enjoys no sanctions relief until such time as they have complied with  
all of the conditions that the Security Council laid down in the  
aftermath of its invasion of Kuwait.

     Q     Does the Department see this munitions rebuilding --  
rebuilding of the military capability of Iraq as ominous?

     MS. SHELLY:  Yes.

     Q     Yes, we do.  Do the Gulf States -- are they responding in a  
way to better protect themselves and cooperate militarily with us?

     MS. SHELLY:  That's a somewhat broader question.  It also touches,  
I think, on some of the issues that Secretary Perry is currently  
working.

     Certainly, we would like to have as much cooperation with us from  
the Gulf States in terms of protecting the security of the region as a  
whole.  That's something that we have worked on rather seriously for the  
last few years and I'm certain that we will be continuing to work on  
that.

     Q     Christine, on another subject.  What can -- go ahead.

     Q     A follow-up on this one.  Are these two men considered to be  
hostages?

     MS. SHELLY:  They are citizens who wandered across the border and  
were taken over by Iraqi authorities.  We're not trying to play some  
kind of word game here.  They are being detained at this point.  I think  
that's how I would continue to characterize them.

     Q     Was there anything in their behavior that the U.S. Government  
disapproves of?

     MS. SHELLY:  As I said earlier on, we believe that the crossing was  
an innocent mistake and that there is absolutely nothing that these  
gentlemen did, besides make an honest mistake, that resulted in their  
apprehension.

     Q     Were they foolish to -- is there anything that they did that  
they shouldn't have done?

     MS. SHELLY:  They obviously --

     Q     I mean, babes are innocent, too, but if they, like torch a  
house, they've done something bad.

     MS. SHELLY:  Barry, I don't know what you're trying to get at.

     Q     Well, you discourage people from going to Iraq.  And then,  
again, American companies are permitted to do business in Iraq.  So it's  
never been clear to me where you draw the line.  This is an innocent  
crossing of the line -- right? -- from Kuwait?

     MS. SHELLY:  I don't know what you're hinting at.

     Q     I'm not hinting at anything.  I'm asking if there's any  
culpability here.  Did they somehow bring this on themselves by doing  
something foolish?

     MS. SHELLY:  Not based on the information that I have available.

     Q     Can I ask concerning the gassing in Tokyo this morning?

     MS. SHELLY:  Sorry, there was another --

     Q     Is UNIKOM at fault here?

     MS. SHELLY:  I don't know.  I saw some reports suggesting that they  
should have been policing better at checkpoints.  Again, I'm not out  
there.  I don't know exactly what transpired.  The fact that they man  
the checkpoints and that the vehicle got across is certainly something  
that merits investigation.  I think that UNIKOM itself had said that  
they were investigating all of the circumstances regarding the incident.

     The Iraqi authorities also, for their part, have said that they're  
also doing their own investigation for whatever that happens to be  
worth.  But I think it's up to UNIKOM to decide whether or not they  
might have been lax, for example, in applying what the procedures for  
crossing.

     Q     Secretary Perry has said he doesn't want to issue any threats  
to the Iraqi regime at this stage.  What action, if any, is the U.S.  
prepared to get these people back?  And at what stage would action be  
appropriate?  And how long do they have to be held before you start  
getting really worried about them?

     MS. SHELLY:  I'm not really in a position to answer the second part  
of your question.  That's very futuristic.  We have involved with the  
Polish authorities because they are our protecting power.  We have also  
been working with UNIKOM and UNIKOM is also trying to secure their  
release.  We hope also other countries that have influential  
relationships with Iraq will also come to the same conclusion that there  
is no benefit for Iraq to continue to hold these individuals,  
particularly given the nature of the circumstances under which they were  
picked up.

     So we hope they will be released, and I simply at this point don't  
want to speculate on how long it would be before some other type of  
action would be contemplated.

     Steve.

     Q     Russia, or --

     Q     One more.  Christine --

     MS. SHELLY:  We're going to have a long briefing today.  I can  
tell.

     Charlie.

     Q     In the matter of these two Americans who made an innocent  
mistake -- not in the matter of these two, but in the matter of other  
Americans -- do you have any reports of other Americans making similar  
mistakes but not having to pay for it, as it were -- not being captured?   
Is this a --

     MS. SHELLY:  Are you talking specifically about the Iraqi-Kuwait  
border?

     Q     The Kuwaiti-Iraqi border.  Are there other instances that  
you've had or reports that you've had of Americans going to the border  
or even crossing the border to visit people at UNIKOM, or from other  
reasons, and coming back?  Has this become a routine thing with  
Americans --

     MS. SHELLY:  I checked on that to try to find out if there had been  
any other similar types of incidents.  As best as I've been able to  
determine, we don't have other reports of detained Americans from  
incidents of that type having taken place.

     I can't account for every single incident that may have taken place  
there, but I'm not aware of similar types of incidents.

     Q     The Embassy advised you that it is not uncommon for Americans  
citizens -- for whatever reason they're in Kuwait -- to go up to the  
border or even to go visit friends at UNIKOM?

     MS. SHELLY:  The Embassy has not advised me to that effect.

     Q     Before we leave this region entirely, can we get you to  
consider taking two questions, understanding that you're the  
Spokesperson and you get sent out here with guidance from other people.

     Number one, is it the position of the U.S. Government that Turkish  
troops coming into northern Iraq is a violation of international law?   
Does the State Department regard it as that?  And, number two, you said  
you could not define what a protected zone is.  Certainly, the Legal  
Department of this building should be able to define that.  Could you  
take that as a question as well?

     MS. SHELLY:  I will do my very best to produce answers to those two  
questions.

     Q     Plus the question on whether or not American military  
equipment was being used?

     MS. SHELLY:  Yes.  I also consider that I'm on the hook for that.

[...]

     (The briefing concluded at 1:57 p.m.)
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