Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-03-15

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 15 Martioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 256799616

Ekdosh 1

brf1503

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 15 Martioy 2010

JENOY TYPOY APO TON KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri kai kalh ebdomada.

H kybernhsh dinei mia pragmatikh, kaqhmerinh kai polymetwph maxh, toso sto eswteriko, me to plhqos twn sysswreymenwn xroniwn paqogeneiwn, oso kai sto ejwteriko, me to terastio elleimma ajiopistias kai ths fereggyothtas poy dhmioyrghse kai mas klhrodothse h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias.

Ayto to elleimma ajiopistias eixe diafanei apo nwris kai antimetwpisthke egkaira kai me epityxia apo ton Prwqypoyrgo, me allepallhles epafes, se eyrwpaiko kai dieqnes epipedo. H Ellada den ekryce ta problhmata ths. Antiqeta, ta apodexqhke kai teqhke apenanti toys. Ofeilame kai ofeiloyme akomh na deijoyme stoys etairoys sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, alla kai sth dieqnh koinothta, pws oi praktikes kai oi taktikes poy mas odhghsan sth shmerinh katastash, anhkoyn pleon oristika sto parelqon kai pws h Ellada, epwdyna men, alla apofasistika kai oristika qa allajei selida.

Xreiazetai, bebaiws, na katabaloyme bary timhma, gia polloys poy den eyqynontai. Ena timhma adiko, alla eqnika anagkaio kai epibeblhmeno apo tis ektaktes synqhkes poy biwnoyme kai poy exoyn diamorfwqei apo ta dieqnh kerdoskopika paixnidia se baros ths xwras mas. Kerdoskopika paixnidia poy prwtos kai monos eqese o Prwqypoyrgos Giwrgos Papandreoy ypoch twn etairwn kai ths dieqnoys koinothtas kai ta katasthsame ws xwra antikeimeno meleths kaqws kai kentriko zhthma ths eyrwpaikhs politikhs atzentas.

Yparxei, omws, prooptikh kai elpida gia toys Ellhnes polites. H eikona ths xwras shmera dieqnws allazei. Ginomaste kai pali syndiamorfwtes twn ejelijewn. Mpainoyme mprosta sth maxh enantion mias dieqnoys katastashs poy apeilei na plhjei krath kai polites. Synypografoyme thn koinh eyrwpaikh prospaqeia gia ton periorismo twn kerdoskopikwn epiqesewn kai epixeiroyme na qesoyme kanones se agores poy mexri shmera droyn anejelegktes.

Se ayth mas thn epityxia, kyrios paragontas kaqistatai h diaqesh kai h wrimothta toy ellhnikoy laoy na diorqwsei ta kakws keimena. Apenanti se ayton ton lao yparxei mono mia desmeysh, oti kanenos oi qysies den qa pesoyn sto keno, oti qa exoyme jana ws xwra th qesh poy mas armozei kai oi polites mas qa exoyn jana th qesh poy eixan sthn ellhnikh koinwnia.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ayth h askhsh diplwmatias thn opoia o k. Papandreoy me epityxia ekane, edwse pragmati kapoia stoixeia allaghs stis staseis poy mas blepoyn oi Eyrwpaioi kai ws ena baqmo, anetrece kai thn eikona ths xwras sto ejwteriko. Omws, praktiko apotelesma mexri twra den fainetai na yparxei. Kai h agwnia mhpws ton epomeno mhna poy qa xreiastoyme jana daneismo, na mhn exei apotelesma. Ti peraiterw metra mporeite na labete se ayth thn kateyqynsh, wste na diasfalisete oti pragmati oloi aytoi oi kopoi kai olh ayth h prospaqeia, qa exoyn kai praktiko apotelesma.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, kaneis den eipe oti teleiwsame. Isa-isa jekinaei apo twra mia poly megalh prospaqeia. Thn epityxia poy exoyme apo tis dieqneis epafes, na thn ejargyrwsoyme, na thn kefalaiopoihsoyme se epityxia poy exei na kanei me thn ajiopistia mas kai poy hdh exoyme dei ta apotelesmata ths. Apo edw kai pera, omws, yparxei mia pragmatika kaqhmerinh maxh, etsi wste otan xreiastei na janadaneistoyme, na daneistoyme me tis proypoqeseis poy daneizontai oles oi ypoloipes xwres. Tote qa mporoyme na milame gia epityxia. Einai, omws, aytonohto kai eynohto oti ayth h epityxia den erxetai apo th mia stigmh sthn allh. Einai gnwsto oti oi agores leitoyrgoyn me ena sygkekrimeno tropo. Einai epishs gnwsto oti mexri stigmhs exoyme th sthrijh twn xwrwn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, alla akomh kai shmera, ayrio, dinontai maxes pragmatika sto Eurogroup kai sto ECOFIN apo ton ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn. Maxes oi opoies synexizontai apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh, etsi wste na mhn exei h Ellada th qesh poy exei shmera kai na mporoyme pragmatika na apodeijoyme ston Ellhna polith, oti aytes oi qysies tis opoies kaleitai na ypostei shmera, pragmatika qa piasoyn topo. Kai emeis, mexri stigmhs, ayto prospaqoyme na diasfalisoyme.

PETOYRH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ta teleytaia 24wra yparxei mia sygxysh sxetika me to sxedio sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias apo thn pleyra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Alles plhrofories miloyn gia ena xamhlotoko daneio, ths tajews twn 25 disekatommyriwn eyrw. Kapoies phges to diaceydoyn ayto. Alles plhrofories miloyn gia ena allo sxedio sthrijhs, th stigmh poy qa xreiastei h Ellada na bgei stis dieqneis agores kai na daneistei. Ena sxedio sthrijhs poy afora xamhlo epitokio, opws eipate kai eseis. Mporeite na mas diafwtisete perissotero; Prokeitai gia daneio; Prokeitai gia thn energopoihsh ths Eyrwpaikhs Kentrikhs Trapezas; Prokeitai gia thn energopoihsh kapoias megalhs eyrwpaikhs trapezas;

PETALWTHS: Epeidh akribws oi ergasies toy Eurogroup kai toy ECOFIN aytes tis hmeres briskontai se ejelijh, qa moy epitrecete na mh mpw se leptomereies. Emeis, omws, ayto poy zhthsame mexri twra, htan h politikh sthrijh kai mono twn Eyrwpaiwn etairwn mas kai qa meinoyme ekei. Oi leptomereies qa epejergastoyn ayto to diasthma, to opoio dianyoyme, etsi wste pragmatika na mh xreiastei na janadaneistoyme me to barbaro tropo poy daneizomastan olo to teleytaio diasthma.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ep` aytoy: Yparxoyn plhrofories poy feroyn koinotikoys ajiwmatoyxoys na zhtoyn emmesws, plhn safws, apo thn Ellada na allajei strathgikh sth rhtorikh ths, dhladh na qesei aithma ap` eyqeias bohqeias. H kybernhsh to skeftetai ayto to endexomeno;

PETALWTHS: Emeis anakoinwnoyme o,ti apofasizoyme kai o,ti qewroyme kalo gia to symferon ths xwras mas kai to dhmosio symferon. Se ayth thn kateyqynsh poy kinhqhkame, kinoymaste mexri kai shmera.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ta esoda toy Febroyarioy fainetai oti einai meiwmena kai ofeilontai h apodidontai en pash periptwsei sthn yfesh. Anhsyxei thn kybernhsh ayth h prooptikh ths yfeshs poy endexomenws qa ferei kai alla metra dhmosionomikhs peiqarxias, kyrie Ekproswpe;

PETALWTHS: Gnwrizoyme oti ta metra poy exoyme apofasisei, oi apofaseis tis opoies anakoinwsame mazi me to Programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs, einai aytes oi apofaseis oi opoies pragmatika qa mas bgaloyn apo thn yfesh. Einai aytes oi apofaseis tis opoies h ellhnikh kybernhsh elabe me perissh skech kai en gnwsei twn synepeiwn aytwn twn apofasewn. Eimaste pepeismenoi pws o,ti apofasisame mexri stigmhs, dhladh, to Programma Staqerothtas, to forologiko nomosxedio poy erxetai entos twn hmerwn, oi anagkaies apofaseis poy anakoinwsame prin apo liges hmeres, arkoyn gia na fqasoyme sto stoxo poy exoyme qesei, dhladh na perioristei to elleimma kata 4% sth xronia poy dianyoyme. Apo ekei kai pera, yparxei gia emas ena terastio qema, to qema ths anaptyjiakhs prooptikhs ths xwras mas. Ayth thn anaptyjiakh prooptikh dinoyme me sygkekrimena nomoqethmata, ta opoia eite exoyn erqei, eite qa erqoyn sthn ellhnikh Boylh, opws einai: O neos anaptyjiakos nomos, to ``jepagwma'' toy ESPA mesa apo thn perifereiopoihsh kai apokentrwsh toy. Kai me ayth thn anaptyjiakh politikh  kyrio kai aparaithto symplhrwma, epitrecte moy na pw, stis apofaseis poy labame mexri twra- qa bgoyme kai apo thn yfesh h opoia yparxei logw toy asxhmoy dhmosionomikoy kai anaptyjiakoy parelqontos mas.

PETOYRH: Dhladh, katalabainw apo thn apanthsh sas oti apokleiete ena paketo newn metrwn, giati yparxei kai ayth h fhmologia ta teleytaia 24wra.

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws kai to apokleiw. Labame apofaseis, polles apo tis opoies einai epwdynes gia ton Ellhna polith, omws, htan apofaseis eqnika anagkaies. Se syndyasmo me tis sobarotates apofaseis poy eixame labei, kyriws me to Programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs, eimaste pepeismenoi oti qa epiteyxqei o stoxos mas gia to 2010. Den yparxei kamia skech gia nea metra. Den ejyphretei se tipota na kykloforoyn tetoies fhmes. Gnwrizoyme para poly kala ti kaname mexri twra kai ti qa kanoyme sto mellon.

MIXAHL: O poliths otan aisqanetai tis epiptwseis aytwn twn metrwn poy phrate, perimenei ena antistaqmisma. Ayto mporei na proelqei eite apo thn anaptyjh, opws exete pei, eite apo to dikaio forologiko systhma. Kata synepeia, enw blepoyme thn anaptyjh na mhn exei akoma jekinhsei h en pash periptwsei na mhn exoyn ginei oi aparaithtes energeies h na mhn arxisoyme na blepoyme kapoia apotelesmata, sto forologiko poy einai pio ameso maqainoyme kai akoyme oti oles aytes oi diarqrwtikes allages qa htan pio dikaies, metatiqentai ena xrono meta. Kata synepeia, giati o poliths poy perimenei na to dei ayto na sas dwsei kai thn pistwsh xronoy oti ola ayta poy lete qa ginoyn;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, oson afora to qema ths anaptyjhs, einai eynohto oti ta apotelesmata ths anaptyjiakhs politikhs thn opoia efarmozei h kybernhsh den eprokeito na fanoyn se toso syntomo xroniko diasthma. Oson afora to forologiko, as kanoyme ypomonh, se liges hmeres katatiqetai. Diabasa kai egw stoixeia gia to neo forologiko nomosxedio, ta opoia, oso mporw na gnwrizw, den isxyoyn. Alla, entos twn hmerwn katatiqetai to forologiko nomosxedio sthn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs kai qa dhmosiopoihqei. Ayto poy mporw na pw einai oti prokeitai gia ena forologiko nomosxedio poy qetei pleon se kainoyrgia bash to forologiko mas systhma kai apokaqista thn koinwnikh dikaiosynh. Pragmatika, o Ellhnas poliths qa dei oti oi kopoi kai oi qysies toy, toylaxiston se o,ti afora to forologiko nomosxedio, den qa pane xamenes.

STRATAKHS: Otan lete ``entos twn hmerwn'', ti ennoeite; Dioti exoyme synexeis anaboles gia to forologiko. Qa katateqei mesa sthn ebdomada;

PETALWTHS: Qa katateqei, entos ths ebdomadas, stis armodies Epitropes ths Boylhs kai th Deytera qa katateqei sthn Olomeleia, afoy bebaia, kata pasa piqanothta thn Pempth, perasei apo to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio.

SPANOY: H kybernhsh qa yposthrijei thn pragmatopoihsh diaxeiristikoy elegxoy sthn kratikh thleorash, se DEKO kai alloys dhmosioys organismoys, me ton tropo poy to zhta o k. Sxoiniwtakhs;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh doyleyei gia to dhmosio symferon. Polles fores exoyme pei oti yparxoyn paqogeneies toy parelqontos, alla yparxei kai mia poly asxhmh kai katastrofikh gia to dhmosio symferon diaxeirish apo th diakybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Emeis, ws kybernhsh exoyme thn aytonohth ypoxrewsh -kai exoyme labei thn entolh- na prospaqhsoyme na dialeykanoyme otidhpote exei na kanei me kakh diaxeirish sto dhmosio tomea, alla kai se epixeirhseis poy exoyn na kanoyn gyrw apo ayton. Ayth einai mia staqerh mas qesh kai thn ylopoioyme.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Den katalaba, symmerizeste ayto poy eipe o k. Sxoiniwtakhs; (den akoygetai)

PETALWTHS: Dieykrinisa th qesh ths kybernhshs: Einai aytonohth ypoxrewsh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs na frontizei gia to dhmosio symferon kai opoy yparxei kakodiaxeirish, safws kai tiqetai ayth h ypoxrewsh.

SEGKOS: H kybernhsh skeftetai na yioqethsei kapoies apo tis protaseis toy OOSA gia thn ellhnikh oikonomia;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh mexri twra exei deijei, kai me tolmhres apofaseis, oti kineitai me gnwmona to dhmosio symferon. To qema ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, toys teleytaioys mhnes teqhke poly sympyknwmena. H ellhnikh kybernhsh, mesa apo thn titania maxh poy dinei, edeije oti mporei na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths ellhnikhs oikonomias kai oti yparxei h boylhsh na ta antimetwpisei me bash thn ideologia ths, me bash tis anagkes poy yparxoyn kai me bash thn poly dyskolh sygkyria thn opoia biwnoyme.

SEGKOS: Sth synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Gkoyria teqhke qema ergasiakwn sxesewn;

PETALWTHS: H synanthsh ginetai twra.

SEGKOS: Teqhke qema ergasiakwn sxesewn, epeidh o OOSA exei zhthsei, metajy allwn, katarghsh syllogikwn symbasewn, katwtatoy misqoy, perissoterh eyelijia...

PETALWTHS: Emeis ws kybernhsh den syzhtame tetoia qemata.

MARAQIAS: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ektos apo tis fhmes kai tis plhrofories se sxesh me nea metra h gia to forologiko nomosxedio, akoygontai kai grafontai polles fhmes kai plhrofories se sxesh me th leitoyrgia ths idias ths kybernhshs kai to endexomeno apofasewn apo ton Prwqypoyrgo gia diorqwtikes kinhseis, akomh kai gia anasxhmatismo ths kybernhshs se orismena krisima ypoyrgeia, ta opoia den apodidoyn mexri stigmhs. Yparxei ena tetoio endexomeno; Ejetazei o Prwqypoyrgos ena tetoio endexomeno;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, apoch ths kybernhshs einai oti den yparxei ypoyrgeio poy na mhn apodidei. To exw pei polles fores kai to epanalambanw: H kybernhsh ayth einai kybernhsh poy ergazetai sklhra. O ariqmos twn ypoyrgikwn symboyliwn, typikwn kai atypwn, kai twn syskecewn kai diaskecewn poy ginontai kaqhmerina, den exei kamia sxesh me th doyleia poy ginotan apo thn kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias mesa sta eji ayta xronia  kai ta idia ta stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias to tonizoyn se kaqe eykairia, kai exw anaferqei sygkekrimena kai se ayth thn aiqoysa. Synepws, den tiqetai kanena tetoio zhthma. Peran omws, apo thn oysia, yparxei h rhth kai kathgorhmatikh arnhsh ths kybernhshs oti tiqetai qema anasxhmatismoy. Ayto sas to lew gia allh mia fora me ton pio rhto kai kathgorhmatiko tropo.

GIANNISHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, toso o k. Pagkalos oso kai eseis, tis teleytaies hmeres deijate oti h kybernhsh epiqymei na kleisei to qema poy dhmioyrghqhke apo koryfaia koinoboyleytika stelexh, ta opoia antedrasan sta metra, malista eixame kai ta gnwsta peristatika entos kai ektos Boylhs. An ayta ta peristatika epanalhfqoyn me aformh, fer` eipein, to forologiko nomosxedio, skopeyei h kybernhsh kai o Prwqypoyrgos na parei metra enantion aytwn twn stelexwn;

PETALWTHS: H erwthsh sas einai eylogh, alla epeidh einai ypoqetikh qa moy epitrecete na mhn apanthsw. Ws pros to ti egine mexri twra, ws kybernhsh exoyme hdh apanthsei. Exoyn doqei oi aparaithtes ejhghseis kai den yfistatai kanena zhthma mexri twra.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, na to qesw alliws: Yparxei kokkinh grammh gia to Megaro Majimoy ws pros tis diaforopoihseis; Dhladh, poses diaforopoihseis, ariqmos, entash; Poso antexei to Megaro Majimoy;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei antoxh toy Megaroy Majimoy. Kokkinh grammh, oytws h allws yparxei pantote se mia kybernhsh. O kaqenas mporei me kapoio tropo na ekfrazei dikes toy apoceis. Otan omws yparxei apofash ths kybernhshs gia orismena zhthmata, tote ofeiloyme oloi na syntassomaste me thn apofash ayth.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Sto ECOFIN kai to Eurogroup, poy qa ginei tis epomenes hmeres, qa syzhthqoyn diarqrwtikes metarryqmiseis kai allages poy prepei na ginoyn sthn ellhnikh oikonomia. Anamesa st` alla, qa teqei kai to qema toy Asfalistikoy. Oi Bryjelles zhtoyn ayjhsh toy orioy hlikias, na paei apo ta 65 sta 67. Qa mas anakoinwsei kati tetoio h kybernhsh tis epomenes hmeres;

PETALWTHS: Ws pros ayto to qema o armodios ypoyrgos k. Loberdos exei apanthsei oti den tiqetai  oyte teqhke- tetoio zhthma sto Asfalistiko. As mhn jexname oti emeis, ws kybernhsh lambanoyme tolmhres apofaseis, prwta ap` ola gia thn idia thn yparjh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos. Ean den to anoigame me ton tropo poy to anoijame, qa kindyneyan na mhn plhrwnontai oi syntajeis. Emeis parembainoyme me tolmhres apofaseis, xwris mpalwmata kai xwris diorqwtikes kinhseis, alla me safeis apofaseis ws pros th diarqrwsh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos. Kai hdh se ligo xroniko diasthma, meta tis gnwstes diaboyleyseis, toson oson afora ta qesmika, alla kai ta xrhmatodotika, qa exoyme ena oloklhrwmeno sxedio asfalistikoy systhmatos poy qa teqei sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio kai tis armodies Epitropes ths Boylhs. Ekei, qa doyme pragmatika ti problepei ayto to asfalistiko nomosxedio. Alla, to na epektaqei to orio hlikias apo ta 65 sta 67 xronia, den exei teqei ws zhthma.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Otan o Prwqypoyrgos stis 2 Flebarh elege oti h kybernhsh einai apofasismenh na ayjhsei ta oria syntajiodothshs, ti ennooyse;

PETALWTHS: To exei ejhghsei o k. Loberdos. Otan milame gia ayjhsh twn oriwn hlikias den ennooyme apo ta 65 sta 67. Gnwrizoyme para poly kala oti sto asfalistiko mas systhma emperiexontai diatajeis opoy sympolites mas se poly nearh hlikia bgainoyn sth syntajh kai ara yphrxe anagkh ayto na antimetwpistei. Se tetoioy eidoys zhthmata exoyme kai analoges ryqmiseis. Den teqhke, omws, qema ayjhshs toy orioy apo ta 65 sta 67 xronia.

LIONAKHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, paramenei akoma anoixto to endexomeno gia thn kybernhsh gia prosfygh sto Dieqnes Nomismatiko Tameio;

PETALWTHS: Einai mia dynatothta, h opoia exei teqei para polles fores. Apo th stigmh poy h kybernhsh einai apofasismenh na mhn janadaneistei me ena toso ychlo epitokio, opws daneizotan toses fores sto parelqon logw ths gnwsths dhmosionomikhs katastashs, to DNT einai mia dynatothta. Efoson den teleiwsei to qema toy daneismoy mas, den stamatoyn kai oi dynatothtes poy parexontai.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Mporeite na mas peite ti allaje kai meta to tajidi toy Prwqypoyrgoy sto Berolino, apofasise h ellhnikh kybernhsh, telika, na agorasei ta eji germanika ypobryxia;

PETALWTHS: Den allaje kati meta to tajidi sto Berolino. Allaje ws pros thn sxesh mas kai ws pros thn qesh mas me ta nayphgeia toy Skaramagka. To Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas kai h kybernhsh exoyn proxwrhsei se mia tetoia diapragmateysh, etsi wste na katoxyrwqei to dhmosio symferon, na katoxyrwqei h synexish ths leitoyrgias twn nayphgeiwn Skaramagka, na mhn qixtoyn ergasiaka dikaiwmata kai na mhn epibarynqei to ellhniko dhmosio me ta xrhmata poy epibarynotan kai ta opoia exei kataballei xwris, malista, na paralabei ta ypobryxia, ta opoia eixan paraggelqei apo prohgoymenes kybernhseis. Qa anakoinwqei h symfwnia. Kai h symfwnia ayth, mporw na sas diabebaiwsw, oti einai pros ofelos toy ellhnikoy dhmosioy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Mporeite na mas peite ti doyleia qa kanei to ypobryxio poy gernei kai qa to paroyme; Se ti apostoles qa phgainei;

PETALWTHS: Qa apofasistei kai qa anakoinwqei h tyxh aytoy toy ypobryxioy.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Mporei na to metapwlhsoyme kapoy; Yparxei kamia...

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws, yparxei kai ayth h dynatothta.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Poy; Stoys Somaloys, as poyme, peirates; Jerw egw; Poios qa parei ena ypobryxio poy gernei;

PETALWTHS: Eimaste mia xwra, opoy oi ejoplismoi mas exoyn plhrh diafaneia. Synepws, na mhn anhsyxeite ws pros ayto.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ean moy epitrepete, na janarqw ston k. Sxoiniwtakh, o opoios leei oti einai paranomes oles oi amoibes poy yperbainoyn to misqo toy Proedroy toy Areioy Pagoy. Erwthma: O k. Gampritsios ti koybentiazei me ton k. Geroylano; Yparxei plafon. Na ypoqesw, paradeigma lew gia ton k. Gampritsio kai ton k. Geroylano, oti h kybernhsh qa efarmosei ayto poy leei o k. Sxoiniwtakhs; Dhladh...

PETALWTHS: Qa efarmostei h nomimothta se ola ths ta epipeda.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ara qa paei mexri ekei;

PETALWTHS: Sas apantw. Qa efarmostei h nomimothta. Emeis exoyme erqei se rhjh me to parelqon kai gnwrizoyme para poly kala ti synebaine. Gnwrizoyme tis terasties amoibes twn dieyqyntikwn stelexwn stis DEKO, stis dhmosies epixeirhseis, epixeirhseis gyrw apo ton dhmosio tomea. Amoibes, oi opoies htan ejwfrenika anarmostes kai den eixan kamia sxesh me tis amoibes toy aploy Ellhna polith. Se olo ayto to kaqestws, to opoio, pragmatika, htan kai einai proklhtiko, opoy akomh yparxei, emeis bazoyme terma giati den mporei, eidika sth shmerinh sygkyria na yparxoyn amoibes, oi opoies prokaloyn oxi mono ta dhmosia oikonomika, alla kai to koino peri dikaioy aisqhma. Gia ayto na eiste sigoyroi.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Ara na ypoqesw, loipon, oti o k. Gampritsios, paradeigma lew pali, epeidh den mas exei pei akoma sth Boylh o k. Geroylanos ti qa parei o k. Gampritsios, gia ayto to lew...

PETALWTHS: Gnwrizw giati to lete...

MAKRYGIANNHS: ... epeidh yphrje mia periergh taktikh, den qa parei perissotera apo ayta poy pairnei o Proedros toy Areioy Pagoy.

PETALWTHS: Oles oi amoibes olwn twn stelexwn toy dhmosioy qa einai sto plaisio ths nomimothtas.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Tote, giati oi treis anaplhrwtes dieyqynontes symboyloi, qeseis tis opoies qespise h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias sth DEH, pairnoyn 180.000 eyrw, aplws 20.000 eyrw ligotera apo oti problepotan mexri twra; Dhladh epairnan 200.000 eyrw kai twra qa pairnoyn 180.000 eyrw.

PETALWTHS: Yparxei oytws h allws mia metabatikh periodos, opoy akomh oi megales amoibes, opoy den mporoysan na kataggelqoyn yfistantai meiwmenes kata ena sygkekrimeno pososto se metabatikh fash. Ayto omws poy mporw na sas diabebaiwsw einai oti stoxos kai kateyqynsh ths kybernhshs einai na apokatastaqei h nomimothta, etsi wste na mhn exoyme proklhtikes amoibes.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kai arkei h metabatikh periodos na mhn krathsei oso h Oktwbrianh Epanastash. Ebdomhnta xronia k. Ekproswpe, giati etsi jekinhse kai telika stamathse.

PETALWTHS: Mhn anhsyxeite.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: O k. Samaras, xqes, sto ektakto synedrio ths ONED sas kathgorhse oti prospaqeite na epanaferete to systhma PASOK. Exete, ep aytoy, na kanete kapoio sxolio;

PETALWTHS: Pragmatika kai egw to akoysa kai elpizw na anaferqhka xaritologwntas o k. Samaras sto �systhma PASOK�, giati htan to megalo epixeirhma ths Neas Dhmokratias, toy kommatos poy hgeitai shmera o k. Samaras, to 2004 gia na kerdisei tis ekloges. Miloysan gia �systhma PASOK� otan h Nea Dhmokratia efere to pio sapio kaqestws poy yphrje pote sta sygxrona politika xronika. Ena kaqestws to opoio mas odhghse se katastrofikes synepeies, tis opoies kaleitai shmera na katabalei kai na plhrwsei apo thn tseph toy o ellhnikos laos. Ean o k. Samaras prospaqei me tetoioy eidoys xaritologhmata kai me anakoinwseis toy ekproswpoy typoy toy na diaxwrisei to parelqon ths shmerinhs Neas Dhmokratias apo thn prohgoymenh Nea Dhmokratia, milwntas, malista, gia Nea Dhmokratia toy Samara, ara kai Nea Dhmokratia toy Karamanlh, ayth h energeia toy peftei sto keno kai deixnei oti akomh den exoyn antilhfqei, o k. Samaras kai oi epiteleis toy, giati exasan ws komma. Den exoyn antilhfqei tis terasties eyqynes poy feroyn mexri shmera gia thn shmerinh katastash ths xwras mas.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, na epanelqw sthn teleytaia apanthsh poy dwsate ston k. Makrygiannh. Ektos apo aytes tis symbaseis kai olh ayth thn diaspaqish, gia thn opoia eipate oti qa thrhqei pia h nomimothta. Yparxei mia plhqwra stoixeiwn, apo oti plhroforoymeqa, kai merika exoyn dei to fws ths dhmosiothtas. Kai to erwthma moy einai giati h kybernhsh ola ayta ta stoixeia den ta dinei h idia sth dhmosiothta, oxi nte kai kala gia na parembei o eisaggeleas, alla gia na maqei o ellhnikos laos oti pragmatika yphrjan kataxrhseis. Kai deyteron, ektos apo tis amoibes yphrxan kai nomoqetikes ryqmiseis, na exoyme, as poyme, genikh ryqmish gia na mporoyn na pairnoyne epixorhghsh syllogoi ergazomenwn. Loipon, ayta den xreiazontai. Qa katarghqoyn; Ti exete kanei; Exete kanei kapoia energeia ep aytoy;

PETALWTHS: Emeis exoyme kanei polles energeies. Kapoies apo aytes tis energeies tis exoyme anakoinwsei, alla o gnwmonas twn energeiwn mas einai na katarghqei opoiadhpote kratikh energeia poy apoferei ws apotelesma mia terastia dhmosia spatalh. Prwton, na sas qymisw oti emeis exoyme katarghsei ton terastio ariqmo twn epitropwn, poy eite htan qespismenes apo palia, eite qespise epipleon h Nea Dhmokratia. Katarghsame aytes tis epitropes giati htan ameibomenes me terastia posa kai elaxisto apotelesma. Emeis kanoyme ayto to megalo bhma, to opoio to blepei o ellhnikos laos kai dinoyme kinhtro se osoys qeloyn na symmetexoyn se aytes tis epitropes, xwris xrhmata stis perissoteres h opoy einai anagkaia, ta xrhmata ayta na einai symbolika. Kai mia seira apo alles energeies, etsi wste na mhn janadoyme ena spatalo kratos, to opoio den qa tima ta xrhmata toy Ellhna forologoymenoy polith.

STRATAKHS: Den jerw an o k. Samaras eipe xaritologwntas gia tis hmeres toy PASOK...

PETALWTHS: To elpizw.

STRATAKHS: To pleon bebaio einai oti o k. Samaras katadikase tis hmeres ths Neas Dhmokratias. Giati, pws alliws na eklhfqei h prospaqeia na egkalesei thn kybernhsh oti den proxwrei grhgora stis allages. Dhladh, sas kathgorei oti den allajate grhgora toys Genikoys Grammateis, oti exete mhxanismoys poy einai dialymenoi kai den proxwrate sthn anasystash toys. Ti exete na apanthsete;

PETALWTHS: Pragmatika, to komma toy k. Samara, h Nea Dhmokratia, eixe epideijei fobero zhlo, otan allaje , jekaqara, me kommatika krithria oles tis qeseis toy dhmosioy tomea. Emeis exoyme apanthsei sthn prajh. Emeis epilejame h epilogh twn kratikwn stelexwn na ginetai apo ena sygkekrimeno anoixto systhma, me oso to dynaton antikeimenika krithria, poy teinoyn sthn ajiopoihsh twn pleon ajiologwn stelexwn poy yparxoyn sthn ellhnikh koinwnia kai den exoyme kanena skopo na katasthsoyme gia allh mia fora to ellhniko kratos, kratos kommatismoy kai pelateiakwn sxesewn. Profanws ayta einai ta krithria, me ta opoia o k. Samaras qetei ta zhthmata poy eqese. Einai omws krithria ta opoia emas den mas aforoyn. Ean, pote, to komma toy k. Samara erqei sthn ejoysia, ypopteyomai oti qa qelei na kybernhsei me ton gnwsto tropo poy kybernoyse ws Nea Dhmokratia toy k. Karamanlh.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, lete gia ayto to systhma to antikeimeniko, to opoio pragmati einai me th morfh nomoqethmatos sth Boylh kai chfizetai mesa sthn ebdomada, an den kanw laqos. Einai mia filotimh, sobarh ki eilikrinhs prospaqeia, pisteyw na qespisete, mallon, antikeimenika krithria. Tote giati sto ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn egine thn Paraskeyh espeysmena yphresiako symboylio kai kalyfqhkan 70 kenes qeseis stis Efories, paroti qa mporoyse ayto na ginei prin 4 mhnes kai na doylecoyn ki oi Efories ligo ki egine molis 5 meres prin yparjei ayth h nomoqetikh ryqmish sth Boylh kai to epitrecate; Dhladh me antikeimenika krithria egine ayth h topoqethsh apo to yphresiako symboylio toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn stis Efories, molis 5 meres prin efarmostei to neo antikeimeniko systhma;

PETALWTHS: Otan den kalyptoyme kapoies qeseis, kathgoroymaste giati den tis kalyptoyme. Otan tis kalyptoyme, kathgoroymaste giati tis kalyptoyme liges meres protoy erqei ena nomosxedio. H dhmosia dioikhsh proxwraei kai prepei na proxwrhsei. Oi ryqmoi poy epilegei h kybernhsh einai ryqmoi doyleias kai opoy yparxei problhma ki anagkaiothta na kalyfqoyn kapoies qeseis, kalyptontai.

LIONAKHS: Symmerizetai h kybernhsh tis dhlwseis toy Antiproedroy ths, k. Qeodwroy Pagkaloy, o opoios ekane logo gia epiqeseis toy Manwlh Glezoy apenanti sth froyra toy Agnwstoy Stratiwth;

PETALWTHS: Emeis, apo thn prwth stigmh katadikasame th bia kai ta biaia epeisodia apo opoy ki an proerxontai. Emeis qeloyme na yparxei koinwnikh galhnh. To dikaiwma ths diamartyrias kai ths apergias einai katoxyrwmeno gia mas kai nomika kai hqika. Apo ekei kai pera, o kaqenas qa prepei na analambanei tis eyqynes toy gia to me poio tropo ekdhlwnei th diamartyria toy. Oson afora sto qema toy Manwlh Glezoy, enos anqrwpoy ths Antistashs kai agwnisth, poy emeis ws PASOK exoyme timhsei kai me idiaitero tropo polles fores kai me tis qeseis poy eixe, qa eimaste oi teleytaioi poy qa mporoysame na amfisbhthsoyme thn hqikh toy, thn entimothta toy, thn agwnistikothta toy. To qema exei lhjei. Kai apo oso gnwrizw kai o astynomikos o opoios estrafh enantion toy me ton tropo toy cekasmoy, hdh, ton exei episkefqei kai exei zhthsei sygnwmh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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