Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-04-03

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 3 Aprilioy 2006

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

@O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio stis 09:00, qa exei synergasia me ton Grammatea ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Leyterh Zagorith.

@Stis 11:00, synedriazei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph me qema nomosxedio toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs gia ton eksygxronismo kai thn ana-baqmish toy Pyrosbestikoy Swmatos.

@Stis 20:00, o Prwqypoyrgos qa milhsei sto enarkthrio deipno toy Synedrioy toy Economist, me qema: ``Apokalyptontas tis nees prote-raiothtes se enan kosmo allagwn''.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLAXOS: Qa hqela ena typiko sxolio gia ta osa eipe xqes o k. Papandreoy kai meta qelw na kanw mia erwthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Hdh xqes to brady ejedwsa anakoinwsh gia to qema. Den qa pw tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Epeidh eimaste thleorash kai qeloyme na sas exoyme kai on camera, mporeite na mas epanalabete to sxolio sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Papandreoy, aplws, epanelabe ta idia poy eixe pei prin apo liges hmeres sthn pro hmerhsias diatajews syzhthsh sth Boylh. Phre apanthsh apo ton Prwqypoyrgo. Einai epikindyno to laikizein kai foboymai oti o k. Papandreoy laikizontas, to mono poy katafernei einai na epibebaiwsei ton palaio eayto toy PASOK, o opoios omws exei aporrifqei apo th syntriptikh pleiofhfia twn Ellhnwn.

BLAXOS: Na kanw twra thn erwthsh. To 2002, eseis ws antipoliteysh, eixate kataggeilei oti oi metrhseis ths AGB den htan swstes. O k. Kefalogiannhs eixe kataqesei erwthsh, o k. Ebert eixe kanei erwthsh. Ginate ypoyrgos, armodios ypoyrgos to 2004. Apo to 2004, loipon, to Martio mexri shmera den exete kanei tipote. Gia poio logo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Hdh to qema ths ajiopistias twn metrhsewn thleqeashs exei teqei polles fores sto dhmosio dialogo. Qelw na qymisw oti apotelese shmeio problhmatismoy gia thn paroysa kybernhsh. Sas qymizw, epishs, oti apo ton perasmeno xrono, ton Dekembrio sygkekrimena, jekinhse o dhmosios dialogos sth diplanh aiqoysa twn Grammateiwn Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs, sto plaisio toy dialogoy gia th sygkentrwsh kai thn adeiodothsh sta MME. Teqhke kai to qema ayto. Qelw na sas diabasw, mias kai me rwtate, ti eixa pei tote kai ti einai dhmosieymeno ws qesh ths kybernhshs gia to sygkekrimeno zhthma. Sto yposhmeio 5 kai me titlo ``Nomiko plaisio dienergeias metrhsewn'' eixame pei: ``O elegxos ths sygkentrwshs twn epixeirhsewn MME, proypoqetei th megalyterh dynath ajiopistia twn metrhsewn thleqeashs, akroamatikothtas kai kykloforias, me bash tis opoies prosdiorizetai h oikonomikh isxys twn epixeirhsewn sthn antistoixh agora. Gia to skopo ayto prepei na qesmoqethqei to anagkaio nomiko plaisio poy qa diasfalizei th dienergeia, ton elegxo kai thn akomh megalyterh ajiopistia twn metrhsewn. Pros thn kateyqynsh ayth apaiteitai h synergasia olwn, dhladh ths politeias kai twn emplekomenwn forewn sto xwro twn epixeirhsewn MME. Einai profanes oti oi lyseis monomeroys epibolhs ek meroys ths politeias, den mporei na exoyn ta epiqymhta apotelesmata. Gia to skopo ayto proteinetai, kata ta protypa ths Epitrophs Elegxoy Ereynas Thleqeashs, h idrysh astikhs etaireias, mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra, h opoia qa apoteleitai apo ekproswpoys ths Enwshs Etairiwn Diafhmishs Epikoinwnias, toy Syndesmoy Diafhmizomenwn Elladas, kaqe allhs antiproswpeytikhs organwshs diafhmistwn kai diafhmizomenwn, kaqws kai toy Syllogoy Etairiwn Dhmoskophsewn kai Ereynas Agoras. Sthn etaireia ayth, qa mporei na symmetexei enas ekproswpos apo kaqe katoxo adeias leitoyrgias radiofwnikwn kai thleoptikwn staqmwn eleyqerhs lhchs h paroxh syndromhtikwn radiofwnikwn kai thleoptikwn yphresiwn, kaqws kai apo kaqe syllogiko forea toys. Epishs, qa mporei na symmetexei kai enas ekproswpos apo kaqe idiokthth efhmeridwn kai periodikwn. Gia ton elegxo twn apotelesmatwn twn metrhsewn, h etaireia qa systhsei treis epitropes elegxoy gia tis ereynes twn metrhsewn thleqeashs twn thleoptikwn staqmwn, akroamatikothtas twn radiofwnikwn staqmwn kai kykloforias twn entypwn antistoixws. Qa prepei epishs na problepetai elegxos twn apotelesmatwn twn metrhsewn, o opoios qa pragmatopoieitai eite me prwtoboylia ths etairias eite ystera apo eidikh aithsh meloys ths h forea MME h ths Genikhs Grammateias Epikoinwnias, Genikhs Grammateias Enhmerwshs. Me thn protash ths kybernhshs gia th metrhsh ths thleqeashs, epidiwketai afenos h synergasia se enan tomea o opoios exei apotelesei kata kairoys shmeio tribhs kai afeteroy megalyterh dynath ajiopistia twn metrhsewn''.

Epishs, qa hqela na sas ypenqymisw oti apantwntas sto plaisio toy koinoboyleytikoy elegxoy, eixa pleistakis epanadiatypwsei th sygkekrimenh protash, anagnwrizontas thn anagkh gia thn ajiopistia twn metrhsewn. Sto plaisio ths eisaggelikhs ereynas, h tews dieyqyntria Epopteias toy prwhn ypoyrgeioy Typoy, nyn Grammateiwn Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs, proshlqe enwpion toy eisaggelea ton Febroyario toy 2006, dieykolynontas to ergo ths Dikaiosynhs kai proskomizontas ola ta aitoymena apo ton eisaggelea stoixeia.

Aytes einai oi energeies poy exei kanei h shmerinh kybernhsh. Synagetai dhladh ws symperasma oti einai apolytws aparaithto na exoyme tetoio nomiko plaisio poy qa mas epitrepei na kanoyme ton elegxo poy den ginotan mexri twra. Mexri twra -gia na exete oloklhrwmenh eikona- ayto to opoio eixe sthn armodiothta toy to prwhn ypoyrgeio Typoy, nyn Grammateies Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs, einai h eggrafh sto mhtrwo etairiwn ereynwn kai tipote perissotero. Me o,ti ayto shmainei bebaia.

BLAXOS: Emena h erwthsh moy htan, giati epi dyo xronia poy eiste sthn kybernhsh, anexeste na leitoyrgei ypo ayto to kaqestws, to opoio kai eseis opws proeipate, anagnwrizete oti den einai ajiopisto se o,ti afora th metrhsh. Dyo xronia to anexeste. Eiste kybernhsh dyo xronia. To gegonos oti to anexeste, den einai ena terastio politiko sfalma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H anoxh, opws katalabainete, exei na kanei me anoxh enanti toy nomoy. Egw molis sas anegnwsa ena apospasma twn dhlwsewn moy prin apo treis mhnes stis opoies anaferetai rhtws oti yparxei anagkh neoy nomoqetikoy plaisioy, prokeimenoy na ginetai elegxos ekei. Gia paradeigma, sto qema ths kykloforias twn efhmeridwn kai twn periodikwn, yparxei enas nomos toy 1938. Ajiopoiwntas diatajh aytoy toy nomoy, to prwhn ypoyrgeio Typoy, arketes fores exei kanei efodoys gia na ereynhsei kata poson ontws anagrafontai orqws oi kyklofories twn efhmeridwn sta praktoreia ta opoia kanoyn diakinhsh efhmeridwn kai periodikwn. Yparxei dhladh ena nomoqetiko plaisio panw sto opoio mporoyse na sthrixtei h yphresia kai na kinhqei. Se o,ti afora tis ereynes, to nomoqetiko plaisio xreiazetai enisxysh gia na mporei na ginetai elegxos. Ayto akribws exoyme diapistwsei edw kai para poly kairo kai to exoyme pei. Ean me rwthsete, giati den kanate to nomo ayto thn prwth hmera poy ginate kybernhsh, qa sas pw oti o nomos aytos entassetai se mia seira nomoqetikwn prwtoboyliwn sxetika me ta MME. Bebaiws, milame gia ena nomoqetiko plaisio poy einai poly shmantiko. Sas qymizw oti exoyn ginei polles episkeceis se xwres ths E.E., dikes moy kai synergatwn moy, syzhthseis me thn Commission kai syzhthseis epi seira mhnwn kai me ta alla kommata, ta opoia sto sygkekrimeno shmeio exoyn symfwnhsei apolytws, alla kai me oloys toys foreis -thn teleytaia fora htan sth diplanh aiqoysa 35 foreis- gia mia seira pollwn qematwn. Den einai mono ayto to qema, einai polla. Opws qymaste, sthn Ellada leitoyrgei h idiwtikh radiofwnia apo to 1987 kai h idiwtikh thleorash apo to 1989 kai yparxoyn arketa nomika kena. Ayta prospaqei na kalycei h kybernhsh. Elpizoyme oti syntoma qa exoyme oloklhrwsei ayto to dialogo. Exei oloklhrwqei o dialogos se dhmosio epipedo. Qa ginei mia akomh synanthsh me ekproswpoys twn kommatwn, mia paroysia dikh moy sthn Epitroph Qesmwn kai Diafaneias, gia na katalhjoyn se ena oristiko keimeno, to opoio qa erqei pros chfish sth Boylh.

BLAXOS: Einai nomimh h leitoyrgia ths AGB, opws ginetai shmera;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi etaireies, nomizw, oti pairnoyn adeia apo to ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs. En synexeia, h armodiothta toy prwhn ypoyrgeioy Typoy, nyn Grammateiwn Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs einai na eggracei thn etaireia se ena mhtrwo. Eggrafontas thn se ena mhtrwo, shmainei oti lambanei ypoch mia seira eggrafwn. Qelw symplhrwmatika na sas pw oti hdh apo thn Paraskeyh, meta th dhmosiopoihsh toy porismatos toy eisaggelea, exw steilei erwthma sto grafeio toy nomikoy symboyloy toy kratoys, to opoio katalhgei gia to ean h etaireia AGB qa prepei na parameinei eggegrammenh h na diagrafei apo to mhtrwo twn Grammateiwn Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs. Qa perimenw thn apanthsh toy nomikoy symboyloy toy kratoys, giati antilambaneste oti ws kratikos leitoyrgos ofeilw -kai etsi ofeiloyme oloi mas- na leitoyrgw entos toy plaisioy toy nomoy. Ean, loipon, o nomikos symboylos toy kratoys moy dwsei apanthsh oti prepei na diagrafei h etaireia apo to mhtrwo, qa diagrafei parayta.

BLAXOS: Shmainei oti qa stamathsoyn oi metrhseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Egw milw gia thn armodiothta poy exei to prwhn ypoyrgeio Typoy, nyn Genikh Grammateia Epikoinwnias & Enhmerwshs, se sxesh me to qema twn metrhsewn. Apo ekei kai pera, h etaireia leitoyrgei me bash toys kanones ths idiwtikhs agoras. Prokeitai -opws gnwrizete- gia mia idiwtikh etaireia.

BLAXOS: Edw, omws, k. Ekproswpe, yparxei mia tromerh anakatanomh terastiwn xrhmatikwn poswn. Dhladh, yparxoyn diafhmizomenoi, oi opoioi endexomenws odhghqoyn se laqos ependyseis, yparxoyn dhmosiografoi oi opoioi mporei na xasoyn th doyleia toys h alloi na ayjhsoyn poly to misqo toys, opws ginetai. Ayto den apasxolei thn politeia ean ginetai mia terastia anakatanomh xrhmatwn, qesewn ergasias katw apo endexomenws nomimh h paranomh diadikasia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecete moy na kanw mia ektimhsh, ws apolytws eylogoy toy erwthmatos sas. Qelw, wstoso, na shmeiwsw oti yparxei ena zhthma -to anefera prohgoymenws analytika- gia to pws leitoyrgoyn tetoies etaireies, hlektronikwn MME kai etaireies metrhsewn twn qeamatikothtwn h akroamatikothtwn kai se alles xwres ths E.E. Me ayta ta protypa proxwroyme sthn protash, thn opoia sas anefera prohgoymenws. Kai elpizoyme, efoson ginei nomos toy kratoys -pisteyw oti qa symfwnhsoyn ta alla kommata, exoyn hdh ekfrastei qetika se ayto- na bohqhsei etsi wste na ginetai pragmatikos elegxos kai na mhn xreiazetai na fqasoyme kapoia stigmh ston eisaggelea h sth dikaiosynh gia na bgoyn ta opoia symperasmata apo ekei. Qa perimenoyme thn ereyna ths dikaiosynhs. Einai, omws, dyo pragmata poy kinoyntai teleiws diaforetika. Oi ryqmoi ths dikaiosynhs qa einai diaforetikoi. Den gnwrizw pote qa teleiwsei ayth h ypoqesh, sthn akroamatikh diadikasia poy fantazomai oti qa odhghqei. Oi dikoi mas ryqmoi einai tetoioi, wste pisteyw entos enos h enamish mhna qa exoyme oloklhrwsei to nomoqetiko plaisio, wste na eimaste etoimoi prin ton Ioynio, gia na ginei h prokhryjh gia tis adeiodothseis radiofwnikwn kai thleoptikwn staqmwn, gnwrizontas oti einai ena topio poy dystyxws leitoyrgei anarxa gia para polla xronia.

MPOTSARAKOS: Me to yfistameno nomiko plaisio problepetai h leitoyrgia ths AGB ontas syndedemenoi me diafhmistikes etaireies.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei o nomos 2328/1995 toy k. Benizeloy, o opoios anaferei rhtws ti prepei na ginetai se aytes tis periptwseis. Problepetai, dhladh, nomika to qema. Yparxei problech. Me rwthsate ean yparxei problech kai apanthsa oti yparxei, den qymamai poio arqro einai.

BLAXOS: Einai to arqro 2 kai apagoreyetai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa kanw ektimhsh epi toy nomoy. Sas lew oti o nomos poy problepei ayto poy me rwthse o synadelfos sas, einai o 2328/1995.

BLAXOS: Exei megalh shmasia na kanete ektimhsh epi toy nomoy. Dioti ean ektimhsete oti parabainei to nomo einai allh diadikasia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apo th stigmh poy einai mia ypoqesh, thn opoia ereyna h dikaiosynh, antilambaneste oti qa htan adokimo ek meroys moy na pw ean ginetai h oxi parabiash toy nomoy. Ws politikos proistamenos mias yphresias, edwsa entolh sthn armodia dieyqyntria, otan zhthse o eisaggeleas, na parexei to fakelo me ta stoixeia ths AGB, etsi wste na dieykolynqei h ereyna ths eisaggelias. Epishs, yparxei kai to erwthma moy pros to nomiko symboylo toy kratoys, se sxesh me to mhtrwo, gia na askhsw th monh armodiothta.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Me osa akoyme apo ta stoixeia poy anaferete gia th drasthriothta ths kybernhshs kai th dikh sas proswpika sto sygkekrimeno qema, bebaiws ektimwntas proqeseis, ws apotelesma den exoyme kati xeiropiasto. Kai nomizw oti h oysia twn erwthsewn einai giati den epembainete rizospastika na balete terma se tetoies katastaseis, aplws parapempete sth dikaiosynh se mia grafeiokratia typoy sosialistikoy kratoys h toy Kafka. Edw yparxei to qema twn ypoklopwn, poy to steilate sth dikaiosynh. Perimenoyme enamish-dyo xronia klp. Oi ypallhloi kai ta kratika stelexh poy ekanan tis paranomies ejakoloyqoyn na einai stis yphresies toys. Den exete parei kanena dioikhtiko metro. Twra yparxei ayth h problhmatikh leitoyrgia ths AGB poy thn parapempete ston eisaggelea, afhnontas na leitoyrgei ayth h etaireia kai na diaxeirizetai dis. Se politiko epipedo poia einai h qesh sas; Ti kanete; Ayta de poy mas lete gia toys nomoys, qa moy epitrecete na sas pw, logw hlikias, oti ta exoyme akoysei 17 xronia se ayth thn aiqoysa. Sympwmatika pantote h ejaggelia ths adeiodothshs ginetai ligo prin tis dhmotikes h eqnikes ekloges. Qa dwsete eseis adeia twra, prin tis dhmotikes ekloges; Mhn trelaqoyme twra.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei mallon mia parejhghsh sto erwthma sas se o,ti afora to an qa dwsw h oxi adeies. Bebaiws kai den qa dwsw egw adeies giati den exw to dikaiwma ayto apo to nomo. Ayto to dikaiwma to exei to ESR basei toy nomoy kai toy Syntagmatos. Se o,ti afora th genikoterh epishmansh poy kanate, qa hqela na sas pw oti se mia astikh dhmokratia, opws h dikh mas oloi eimaste ypoxrewmenoi na kinhqoyme epi th basei twn nomwn. Den apofasizei kai diatassei h opoiadhpote politikh ejoysia. Ean, dhladh, kapoios den akoloyqhsei toys nomoys, orqws eseis en synexeia -ws aytoi poy krinoyn ej epaggelmatos thn ekastote politikh hgesia- qa egeirete erwthmata giati h politeia den akoloyqhse to nomo kai ekane paranomws kati. Antilambaneste, loipon, oti akoma ki an se mia politikh kritikh, h opoia exei kaloproaireto stoxo, tiqentai tetoia erwthmata -egw sebomai ta erwthmata- h apanthsh den mporei na einai para mono oti h opoiadhpote kybernhsh ofeilei na kineitai entos twn syntagmatikwn plaisiwn. Otan h kybernhsh diapistwnei oti yparxei kapoio keno nomoy, tote ofeilei na to symplhrwsei. Ayth htan olh h analysh apantwntas se erwthmata.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Kanete enhmerwtikh dialejh, qemith, kales oi proqeseis, kalo to ergo kai o misqos sas, apotelesma poio einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Tote na kanw ki egw mia erwthsh, ean moy epitrepete: Ti moy proteinete; Na kinhqw erhmhn twn nomwn; Na dwsw mia entolh ws politikos proistamenos mono kai mono dioti etyxe ayth thn periodo na eimai ypoyrgos ypeyqynos gia ton Typo; Ofeiloyme na sebomaste toys nomoys. Opoios sebetai toys nomoys, zei se mia dhmokratia, exei ayta ta pragmata.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Den lew na paranomhsete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sth dhmokratia ofeiloyn oloi na sebontai toys nomoys. Se alla kaqestwta den xreiazetai na throyntai oyte oi nomoi, oyte ta syntagmata. Anastellontai diatajeis toy syntagmatos, opws jerete, kai kineitai h politikh ejoysia diktatorika. Ayto den isxyei sth dhmokratia.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Wraia. Na sas dwsw thn apanthsh poy me rwthsate; To kaqe qema exei polles diastaseis kai th nomikh kai th syntagmatikh kai thn oikonomikh. Egw sas rwtw pantote edw me qrhskeytikh eylabeia se politiko epipedo. To erwthma moy einai ti kanei h kybernhsh, oson afora ton kratiko mhxanismo, ta kybernhtika stelexh, toys anqrwpoys poy diaxeirizontai aytes tis katastaseis. Ti kanate se dioikhtiko epipedo me oloys aytoys poy asxoloyntai me ayta ta qemata, twn ypoklopwn, ths AGB, toy aimatos, oloi einai stis qeseis toys. Eseis ws kybernhsh pws toys afhnete stis qeseis toys; Qa toys diwjete; Qa toys antikatasthsete; Kai otan qa teleiwsei h dikastikh, nomikh, astikh diadikasia qa toys apokatasthsete, ean einai aqwoi. Phrate kanena dioikhtiko, kybernhtiko metro; Ayto sas rwtw. Oxi paranomo, oxi antisyntagmatiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei.

KAKALHS: Ektimate oti exei logo yparjhs h AGB, meta to neo forea poy qa ftiajete me th symmetoxh olwn twn MME gia thn katametrhsh ths thleqeashs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa einai etaireia katametrhshs. Isws sas mperdeyei to gegonos oti anafereste se etaireia mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra. Qa einai etaireia elegxoy. Se oles tis prohgmenes dytikes koinwnies ayta ta qemata -kai kyriws ta qemata poy aforoyn zhthmata metrhsewn h dhmosiografikhs deontologias- kinoyntai se ena plaisio aytoryqmishs. H logikh ayth mas briskei symfwnoys kai to exoyme pei dhmosiws apo tote poy hmastan sthn antipoliteysh. H aytoryqmish sth xwro toy dhmosiografikoy epaggelmatos-leitoyrghmatos, h aytoryqmish synolika sto xwro twn MME. Ayto poy ofeilei na kanei h Politeia einai na elegxei. Lew, loipon, oti xreiazetai na ginei ayth h etaireia poy qa elegxei kai qa exei th dynatothta h Politeia h opoio melos ayths ths etaireias -kai ws melh ths etaireias anefera poioi qa mporoysan na einai- na zhtoyn ana pasa stigmh ton elegxo, wste na mporoyme na eimaste bebaioi oti oi metrhseis exoyn ajiopistia kai antikeimenikothta.

KAKALHS: Tis metrhseis poios qa tis kanei se ayto to neo kaqestws;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H opoiadhpote etaireia dienergei tis metrhseis kai se alles xwres. Qelw na pw oti yparxei h dynatothta@

KAKALHS: Mporei, dhladh, na einai kai h AGB.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporei na einai h opoiadhpote etaireia.

SPYRAKH: Meta th xqesinh synanthsh poy eixan stelexh toy agrotikoy syndikalismoy sth Larisa poy proskeintai sto kybernwn komma me to Grammatea ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs k. Zagorith kai me ton armodio apo thn Koinoboyleytikh Omada k. Berginh, sxhmatisan thn entypwsh oti h kybernhsh prokeitai na epanelqei sto qema twn panwtokiwn. Yparxoyn sxetikes dhmosies dhlwseis syndikalistwn poy symmeteixan sth synanthsh gi` ayto. Qelw na rwthsw eyqews, ean h kybernhsh afhnei anoikto to endexomeno na melethsei nea ryqmish gia to zhthma twn panwtokiwn, kaqws oi agrotes ektimoyn oti monon ena mikro pososto apo aytoys poy eixan to problhma kalyfqhke apo thn prwth ryqmish.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas apanthsw arxizontas apo to teleytaio skelos ths erwthshs sas h ths parathrhshs poy egine apo agrotes h apo esas: Ena megalo pososto exei hdh wfelhqei apo aytes tis ryqmiseis. Sas qymizw -den exw shmera ta stoixeia mazi moy- oti den perasan panw apo 15 hmeres apo tote poy edwsa mia seira stoixeiwn me sygkekrimenoys ariqmoys kai pososta. Se o,ti afora to prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas, den exw kati kainoyrgio na sas anaferw. Den eimai se qesh na sas apanthsw, kaqoti den gnwrizw an yparxei tetoioy eidoys skech sto armodio ypoyrgeio.

MPOTSARAKOS: Qymamai, omws, oti prin apo ena xrono, se analogh erwthsh poy eixe ginei, eixate pei oti meletwntai kapoies alles eidikes periptwseis poy den kalyptontai apo to nomo. Mas eixate pei oti ejetazontai ayta ta qemata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den aperrica tipota. Sas anefera oti den gnwrizw, den eimai koinwnos apocewn poy tyxon yparxoyn sto armodio ypoyrgeio.

SPYRAKH: Einai ikanopoihmenh h kybernhsh apo thn eikona poy didetai apo thn katafanws dhmosia antiparaqesh anamesa ston prwhn kai ton nyn ypoyrgo Ygeias, se sxesh me thn katastash sta nosokomeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw, hdh, apanthsei sto qema. Den qa pw tipote perissotero.

SPYRAKH: Pantws, shmera, o k. Abramopoylos xrewse sta MME ayth thn antiparaqesh, enw o k. Kaklamanhs eipe dhmosiws oti den einai apo ekeinoys poy qa xrewsoyn sta MME mia katastash diaforas apocewn. Ep` aytoy yparxei profanws ena qema.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

IWANNOY: Qa hqela na mas peite ean problhmatizetai h kybernhsh apo tis apoceis poy akoysthkan apo polloys boyleytes, se sxesh me th leitoyrgia toy ypoyrgeioy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs. Sxedon to synolo twn boyleytwn ths Neas Dhmokratias poy phran to logo, ebalan ena qema oti den einai paron to ypoyrgeio kai den sebetai h telos pantwn den antapokrinetai stis apaithseis twn agrotwn poy sthrijan th Nea Dhmokratia stis ekloges.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio.

IWANNOY: Qa hqela na rwthsw gia thn AGB poy eipate prohgoymenws oti perimenete mia apanthsh gia to an qa prepei na diagracete h oxi apo to mhtrwo th sygkekrimenh etaireia. Ayto, se epipedo nomimothtas leitoyrgias, paizei kapoio rolo, giati den to gnwrizw; Dhladh, ean pacei na yparxei sto mhtrwo mporei na leitoyrgei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den shmainei oti qa pacei kai na leitoyrgei. Sas eipa kai pali oti mia etaireia lambanei adeia leitoyrgias me bash ta stoixeia poy problepei o nomos. Ean diagrafei apo to mhtrwo, shmainei oti den qa mporei na kanei kanenos eidoys dhmosies symbaseis.

IWANNOY: Qa hqela na sxoliasete ta osa eipe o oikonomikos symboylos toy k. Papandreoy, k. Polemarxakhs, se hmerhsia efhmerida, o opoios, otan rwthqhke gia ta oria ayjhshs hlikias sto asfalistiko, eipe oti prepei na doqoyn kinhtra gia na mporei na epimhkynqei h ergasia twn Ellhnwn politwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ean prepei na sxoliasw ta osa leei o armodios tomearxhs k. Benizelos h ta osa eipe o oikonomikos symboylos toy k. Papandreoy poy einai ek diametroy antiqeta. Se kaqe periptwsh, ean men isxyoyn ta prwta toy k. Benizeloy, exoyme topoqethqei. Ean isxyoyn ta deytera toy k. Polemarxakh, kalwsorizoyme to PASOK sto dialogo gia to asfalistiko.

KORAH: Ean oi ergazomenoi stis DEKO arnhqoyn to 3% poy exete proqesh, apo o,ti fainetai toylaxiston mexri twra, na toys dwsei h kybernhsh, qa proxwrhsete monomerws; Dhladh, qa nomoqethsete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti den apantw se erwthmata me ``ean'', edw kai para polla xronia.

BLAXOS: Eiste poly eyxaristhmenos gia th bohqeia poy prosferoyn sthn kybernhsh kai toys xeirismoys ths oi syndikalistes ths Olympiakhs meta apo ayta poy synebhsan sto aerodromio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai poy anafereste.

BLAXOS: Sas dieykolynoyn sto na xeiristeite qemata oi syndikalistes, oi opoioi oysiastika dhmioyrgoyn ena klima aganakthshs twn politwn se baros ths Olympiakhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa kanw sxolio eidika epi twn syndikalistwn. H Olympiakh Aeroporia einai mia etaireia h opoia antimetwpise seira problhmatwn -ta gnwrizoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites- kai ayta exei klhqei shmera, meta apo pieseis pollwn etwn kai apofaseis ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs, na antimetwpisei h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Kai ayto prattei.

BLAXOS: O Proedros toy SEB k. Kyriakopoylos me ton tropo poy symperiferqhke kai me ta osa leei, pisteyete oti dhmioyrgei problhma sthn eikona twn epixeirhmatiwn sthn Ellada. Dhladh, plhttei thn epixeirhmatikothta sthn Ellada;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa sxoliasw ton Proedro toy SEB. Den qa hqela na pw tipote perissotero kai idiaitera shmera poy ginetai mia krisimh synanthsh twn koinwnikwn forewn. Elpizw gia to kalytero apotelesma.

XIWTHS: Gia to qema ths AGB den exw katalabei kati to opoio nomizw einai poly aplo. Qewrei h kybernhsh oti to systhma twn metrhsewn opws diejagetai shmera einai ajiopisto h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan exw pei polles fores dhmosiws -kai malista to exw qesei ws zhthma sto dhmosio dialogo- oti prepei na exoyme ajiopista systhmata, ayto shmainei oti yparxoyn kena. Ayta ta nomika kena prospaqei na kalycei h kybernhsh. H kybernhsh den einai se qesh kai oyte ayth einai h proqesh ths, na ferei thn opoiadhpote etaireia na kanei ereynes kai na krinei ean h a@ h h b@ etaireia einai kalh h ligotero kalh. Ayto poy ofeilei na kanei kaqe kybernhsh einai na mporei na exei th nomikh dynatothta na elegjei. Anefera prohgoymenws oti ayth th nomikh dynatothta toy elegxoy th dinoyme kai stoys foreis, sto plaisio toy na eimaste pistoi se ayto poy exoyme pei kai to opoio isxyei se oles tis prohgmenes xwres: Ths aytoryqmishs tetoiwn tomewn, tetoiwn xwrwn kai sthn kybernhsh, sta armodia organa, otan kriqei aparaithto, otan yparjei mia kataggelia h aytoboylws, giati den xreiazetai kat` anagkh na ginei kataggelia. Gia paradeigma, sto qema twn elegxwn poy ginontai toys teleytaioys mhnes gia thn kykloforia twn efhmeridwn sta praktoreia kykloforias, den yphrje kamia kataggelia. Yphrje aytoboylh kinhsh ths armodias yphresias.

XIWTHS: H kybernhsh dhlwnei se kaqe eykairia oti einai paroysa opoy yparxoyn problhmata. Den mporw na katalabw pws einai dynato na ginetai mia eyrytath syskech sth Qessalia, na kaloyntai oi boyleytes, na kaleitai o ypoyrgos, alla o ypoyrgos na mhn einai parwn; Mporeite na mas ejhghsete giati xqes o k. Mpasiakos den htan parwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ean eklhqh. Den gnwrizw ti eidoys prosklhsh-syskech egine. Den mporw na apanthsw se kati poy den to gnwrizw.

XIWTHS: Qewreite oti einai h prepoysa prosoxh, o prepwn sebasmos sto dialogo poy anazhta h kybernhsh me toys armodioys foreis, opoy yparxoyn problhmata kai to dexeste oti yparxoyn, na mhn einai paroysa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Etsi opws to lete einai san na dhmioyrgeite thn entypwsh oti h kybernhsh einai apoysa genikws apo toys dialogoys. Sas qymizw oti molis pro oligwn ebdomadwn, o k. Mpasiakos eixe sto ypoyrgeio toy 31 h 32 apo toys 33 foreis twn bambakoparagwgwn. Kaqhmerinws h ebdomadiaia oi ypoyrgoi -an parakoloyqeite to programma toys- exoyn epafes me seira ergazomenwn ston tomea toy ypoyrgeioy toys gia na akoysoyn, na antallajoyn apoceis kai na lysoyn problhmata.

XIWTHS: Anaferomai sth Qessalia, sta problhmata ths sygkekrimenhs perioxhs apo opoy, opws kataggelloyn oi agrotosyndikalistes, alla kai oi boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias poy zhthsan xqes to logo, h hgesia toy ypoyrgeioy Anaptyjhs exei na emfanistei epi polloys mhnes, gia na mhn pw epi xronia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto poy eipate prohgoymenws einai ligo diaforetiko apo ayto poy lete twra. H kybernhsh, o kaqe ypoyrgos, asxoloyntai me ta problhmata toy tomea toy. Ayto fainetai sthn prajh ws apotelesma.

MPOTSARAKOS: Se sxesh me thn efarmogh toy nomoy gia tis DEKO, qelw na rwthsw to ejhs: H kybernhsh apokleiei to endexomeno na yparjei epidiaithsia stis diapragmateyseis, se sxesh me thn efarmogh toy nomoy h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Moy kanete mia erwthsh gia na ermhneysw to nomo; O,ti leei o nomos qa ginei.

MPOTSARAKOS: O nomos leei oti qa nomoqethsei h kybernhsh ean den yparjei apotelesma. Kai rwtw@

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh phre mia apofash se sxesh me tis DEKO. Qewrei oti einai mia apo tis megales metarryqmiseis gia tis opoies eixame desmeytei na kanoyme sto kybernhtiko mas programma. O nomos loipon qa efarmostei.

MPALHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den exw katalabei to ejhs me thn AGB: H AGB pairnei adeia apo to Ypoyrgeio Emporioy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws kaqe etaireia;

MPALHS: Opws kaqe etaireia. Ean gia opoiadhpote allh epixeirhsh askhqoyn diwjeis kakoyrghmatikoy xarakthra, p.x. gia mia epixeirhsh trofimwn, den mpainei loyketo se ayth thn epixeirhsh mexri na telesidikhsei h ypoqesh; Dhladh ayth th stigmh exoyme enan eisaggelea poy exei ena porisma poy leei ena, dyo, tria, tessera shmeia gia thn AGB. Pws qa synexisei ayth h etaireia na kanei metrhseis, apo th stigmh poy yparxei ayth h skia panw apo th leitoyrgia ths; Gia kapoia allh epixeirhsh qa yphrxe ayto to kaqestws h gia paradeigma qa empaine ena loyketo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se oles tis epixeirhseis ginetai oti problepei o nomos. Den ginetai kati ektos nomoy. Ginetai o,ti problepetai apo to nomo. Kai yparxei mia basikh arxh toy dikaioy, thn opoia, jerete, me polloys agwnes katekthsan alles genees nwritera apo emas. Ean egw sas kathgorhsw gia kati, akomh kai an apodeixqeite enoxos, mexri na apodeixqeite enoxos den dikaioymai na kanw tipote perissotero apo to na kinhqw me bash to nomo.

BLAXOS: Qa prepei na epanaferw to erwthma toy k. Mpotsarakoy, o opoios sas rwthse ean sto nomo poy isxyei apo to 1995, problepetai h apagoreyetai na einai idiokthths diafhmistikhs etaireias melos ths AGB.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei o nomos 2328, yparxei ena Proedriko Diatagma to opoio bghke se efarmogh toy nomoy. Egw loipon exw ypoballei erwthma sto nomiko symboylo toy kratoys, prokeimenoy na moy dwsei mia safh apanthsh gia to ti prepei na kanw gia na kinhqw epi th basei toy nomoy.

BLAXOS: Ma isxyei o nomos kyrie Ekproswpe. Prepei na ton jerete, giati agnoia nomoy den epitrepetai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws isxyei o nomos. Diabaste omws kai to nomo, diabaste kai to Proedriko Diatagma. Epi th basei aytwn, alla kai twn kataggeliwn poy eixan ginei, fantazomai oti kinhqhke o Eisaggeleas. Otan loipon exw thn apanthsh se o,ti afora ayto to kommati ths dhmosias dioikhshs, dhladh ean ayth h etaireia prepei h oxi na einai eggegrammenh sto mhtrwo, qa kinhqw analogws. Pantote omws entos twn syntagmatikwn armodiothtwn moy kai xwris na tis parabiasw giati se ayto to syntagma orkisthka ws boyleyths.

BLAXOS: Sas epishmainw kyrie Ekproswpe oti ektos apo th diafhmistikh ``pita'' h istoria ths AGB exei kai efarmogh sto politiko skhniko. Dhladh anebazei h katebazei boyleytes, anebazei h katebazei ypoyrgoys. Dhladh mporei na deijei oti enas ypoyrgos h enas boyleyths otan bgainei se ena kanali mporei na einai 0,0 thleqeash kai na mh ton janaparei kanenas h enan ypoyrgo h enan boyleyth na bgainei na deixnei oti exei thleqeash 30% kai na trexoyn ola ta kanalia gia na ton paroyn thn allh hmera. Dhladh exei epiptwsh kai sto politiko skhniko ayth h istoria ths AGB.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma den ypotimhse kapoios th sobarothta aytoy toy qematos.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla den thn akoympate ayth thn ypoqesh, ayto moy kanei tromerh entypwsh th stigmh poy eseis oi idioi san ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh, thn eixate kataggeilei. Eseis jekinhsate..

ROYSOPOYLOS: Koitajte, mporeite na kanete opoia krish qelete. Eleyqeros dhmosiografos eiste, to syntagma mas sas dinei to dikaiwma. Egw hrqa enwpion sas, opws hrqa kai enwpion olwn twn forewn edw kai polloys mhnes kai milhsa eyqarsws gia ola ayta ta systhmata ta opoia prepei na exoyn apo thn Politeia mia eniaia antimetwpish. As poyme, to na ergazetai kapoios yper toy Syntagmatos kai twn nomwn einai ypoxrewsh toy. Yparxei mia seira apo nomoys se ayto ton topo, poy aforoyn ta radiothleoptika MME. Kai anarwtiemai posoi htan nomoi poy efarmosthkan, pote efarmosthkan, giati den efarmosthkan k.o.k. Ws kybernhsh hrqame me safh proqesh na allajoyme to topio etsi wste na mhn exoyme pia ayth thn anarxia. Den einai kaneis eyxaristhmenos me to na mhn exoyn adeia leitoyrgias, para mono proswrinh, h na mhn didei h Politeia adeies leitoyrgias sta radiofwna kai stis thleoraseis. Den to qewrw egw oti einai swsto. Den qewrw oti einai logiko. Egine loipon mia poly megalh doyleia, mia poly megalh prospaqeia. Kai egine me dialogo apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs kai oxi me ``apofasizomen kai diatassomen'', gia na odhghqoyme se ena nomoqetiko plaisio, na lysoyme tetoia problhmata. Eseis anadeijate ena. Yparxoyn dekades an oxi ekatontades tetoia zhthmata, ta opoia den exoyn lyqei edw kai para polla xronia h leitoyrgoyn me streblo tropo.

BLAXOS: Egw anedeija oti kaqystereite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa. Allh erwthsh.

KAKALHS: Meta thn idiwtikopoihsh ths Emporikhs kai ths Olympiakhs efetos, toy OTE toy xronoy kai ths DEH toy antixronoy, opws eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs, h kybernhsh skeftetai na paradwsei ta kleidia sto SEB, afoy ta panta qa einai idiwtika, akomh kai ta Panepisthmia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa apanthsw sthn erwthsh sas.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Katopin olwn aytwn kai ths plhroys enhmerwshs poy mas kanate, qa hqela an mporeite, na diabebaiwsete thn koinh gnwmh, prwton ean shmera, ayth th stigmh, ginontai ypoklopes h den ginontai. Ean to aima poy metaggizetai stoys asqeneis, ginetai me asfalh tropo. Kai triton ean oi dhmoskophseis ths AGB einai nomimes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw pei polles fores se ayth thn aiqoysa kai to exoyn pei alloi sofoteroi emoy, oti yparxoyn nomoi -opoy den yparxoyn nomoi ofeilei h Politeia na erqei na kalycei ta kena- kai oti yparxoyn kai paranomoi. Yparxoyn dhladh paranomoi oi opoioi parabiazoyn toys nomoys. Eipa dekades fores kai den qa koyrastw na to lew oti poyqena ston kosmo den epitrepetai to egklhma. Kai omws egklhmata synexizoyn na ginontai. Ekeino poy ofeilei na kanei mia Politeia, einai na diaqetei elegktikoys mhxanismoys poy qa leitoyrgoyn. Kai aytoys toys elegktikoys mhxanismoys oi opoioi qa leitoyrgoyn ofeilei kaneis en egrhgorsei na brisketai apo panw kai na toys elegxei.

BLAXOS: Qelw na sas janarwthsw mia erwthsh poy eixa kanei prin kairo, ean exete metaniwsei poy den balate sto qema twn ypoklopwn apo thn prwth hmera kai thn ADAE. Dioti mesa se 60 hmeres, opws epeshmane orqa kai h ELEYQEROTYPIA se enan titlo ths, se 60 hmeres brhke kati, poy den brhkate epi 11 mhnes eseis. Htan laqos telika to oti den balate stis ereynes kai thn ADAE;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws exw pei polles fores kai den qa koyrastw na to lew, h kybernhsh me sobarothta, synesh kai ypeyqynothta, apeyqynqhke se enan apo toys treis pylwnes ths Dhmokratias. Toys qymizw: Ektelestikh, Dikastikh kai Nomoqetikh Ejoysia. H Ektelestikh Ejoysia epese qyma ypoklopwn, apeyqynqhke ston etero pylwna, sth Dikastikh Ejoysia gia na ereynhsei thn ypoqesh.

XIWTHS: Dhmosieymata efhmeridwn poy anaferontai sth leitoyrgia toy thleoptikoy staqmoy SKAI, anaferoyn shmera oti oi diadikasies poy akoloyqhqhkan isws na mhn htan oi apolytws nomimes. Kai anaferontai kai sth dikh sas drasthriothta, legontas oti eseis sthn oysia epitrecate th leitoyrgia aytwn twn diadikasiwn poy, en pash periptwsei, isws paroysiazoyn kena. Den jerw ti exete na apanthsete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa apanthsw me ton idio tropo, o opoios mporei na mhn ``aresei'' ws apanthsh se synadelfo sas@

PAPADOPOYLOS: Den einai proswpiko kyrie Ekproswpe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den einai proswpiko gi` ayto to bazw entos eisagwgikwn. Alla yparxoyn sygkekrimenoi tropoi me toys opoioys ginontai ayta. Kai aytoi problepontai apo toys nomoys. Ean bebaiws qeloyme na rixnoyme tis eyqynes se ena proswpo, ayto einai poly eykolo, opws gnwrizete. Den einai h prwth fora allwste.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Moy xrwstate mia apanthsh gia th brabeysh toy Prwqypoyrgoy apo toys mikromesaioys stis Bryjelles. Apo ton Oktwbrio den enhmerwqhke o Prwqypoyrgos, o k. Sioyfas apo esas, apo to grafeio toy@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qymamai to qema.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Moy eipate oti qa to diereynhsete. Oi anqrwpoi perimenoyn na ton brabeysoyn kai den exoyn parei apanthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apo ton Oktwbrio eprepe na erqei o Aprilios gia na moy to janapeite, den moy to legate nwritera;

PAPADOPOYLOS: Edw kai dyo mhnes sas exw kanei dyo erwthseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa to koitajw. Den to qymamai, me sygxwreite.

Sas eyxaristw.

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