BRIEFING 08-05-96

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://web.ariadne-t.gr/> - email: [email protected]

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS 8/5/96

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO k. DHMHTRH REPPA

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, ti ennoei o Prwqypoyrgos sthn omilia toy enwpion ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omados toy PASOK otan leei: "Sas kalw na mhn symballoyme sth geloiopoihsh twn qesmwn kai leitoyrgiwn toy kommatos mas";

REPPAS: Nomizw, kyrie Stamatopoyle, oti an diabasete olh thn omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy (h opoia egine se ena kommatikoy xarakthra organo, thn Koinoboyleytikh Omada kai gi'ayto den xreiazetai na kanoyme ektetamenh syzhthsh gia th synedriash ths K.O.), qa deite oti oydeis mporei na diafwnei me ta osa anaferei sthn omilia toy o Prwqypoyrgos. Oloi exoyme xreos, oloi exoyme eyqynh na feromaste me tetoio tropo, wste oi qesmoi na leitoyrgoyn aproskopta kai ta apotelesmata ta opoia qa prokyptoyn apo ayth th drasthriothta na einai wfelima gia oloys kai amesws antilhpta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exei geloiopoihqei to PASOK;

REPPAS: Kyrie Stamatopoyle, nomizw oti ena komma to opoio apolambanei ths empistosynhs toy ellhnikoy laoy wste na kyberna, kaqe allo para mporei na isxyrisqei kapoios oti exei odhghqei sth geloiopoihsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poioi symballoyn sth geloiopoihsh; Den apantate.

REPPAS: Kyrie Stamatopoyle, opoiosdhpote feretai me tetoio tropo o opoios odhgei se dysleitoyrgia toys koinoboyleytikoys qesmoys h dinei mia asxhmh symbolh - syndromh sthn eikona poy dhmioyrgeitai gia to proswpo ths dhmosias ejoysias, pisteyw oti exei mia arnhtikh syneisfora. Ayto einai mia qesh arxhs. Den einai dikasths o Prwqypoyrgos, oyte anaferqhke se sygkekrimenes periptwseis. Gnwrizete para poly kala - allwste kai eseis anaferete, ws dhmosiografos, polles fores, tetoioy eidoys fainomena ta opoia kaystika epishmainete - oti yparxoyn symperifores kai draseis oi opoies odhgoyn se apajiwsh twn qesmwn. Nomizw oti ayto einai mia genikh arxh. Kai oloi mas, idiaiterws oi dhmosioi andres, ta politika proswpa, prepei na symballoyn sthn leitoyrgia twn qesmwn kai sthn enisxysh toy kyroys twn.

MOYRTZHS: O Prwqypoyrgos sthn omilia toy anaferetai dyo-treis fores nomizw se "kaqares kai apofasistikes lyseis se opoio zhthma kai an teqei sto Synedrio". Epeidh o syneirmos erxetai aytomata, "kaqares lyseis" proteinan orismena stelexh toy PASOK ws pros to qema ths diadoxhs.

REPPAS: Qelete prwta na ypobalete thn erwthsh kai meta na anaptyjete th syllogistikh sas;

MOYRTZHS: Erwtw: Stis "kaqares kai apofasistikes lyseis", opws anaferei o k. Prwqypoyr- gos, empiptei kai to qema ths diadoxhs sto PASOK;

REPPAS: Kyrie Moyrtzh - epanalambanw kai pali - h syzhthsh ayth ginetai sta plaisia enos organoy kommatikoy xarakthra. H qesh poy diatypwnetai einai mia qesh arxhs: oti gia ola ta qemata prepei h antimetwpish apo meroys mas na einai mia antimetwpish h opoia qa ginetai se kaqarh bash.

MOYRTZHS: Kai gia to qema ths diadoxhs;

REPPAS: Ma, otan milame gia kaqarh lysh twn qematwn, milame gia lysh h opoia einai oristikh, einai rizikh, einai telesidikh, einai apotelesmatikh, einai me thn plhrh ennoia toy oroy LYSH. Ayto akribws. Giati sas kanei entypwsh poy xrhsimopoieitai mia lejh h opoia qelei akribws me emfash na prosdiorisei to ti prepei na prosdoka o kaqenas, otan epidiwkei na lysei kapoia problhmata: Na yparxei LYSH, me thn plhrh ennoia ths lejhs. Qelete pali, kyrie Moyrtzh, na rwthsete; Oriste. Nomizw, omws, oti einai yperboliko na syzhtame epi ths diadikasias ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omados.

MOYRTZHS: Se allo shmeio ths omilias toy enwpion ths K.O. toy PASOK, o k. Prwqypoyrgos tonise oti pisteyei se enan allo tropo leitoyrgias ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas, se mia nea isorropia sxesewn Prwqypoyrgoy kai Koinoboyleytikhs Omados. Erwtw loipon: Yphrxe mexri pro enos xronoy anisorropia gia na apokaqista twra...

REPPAS: Kyrie Moyrtzh - epanalambanw kai pali - ola ayta apoteloyn qeseis arxhs. Sas diafeygei oti h syzhthsh h opoia ginetai sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada shmera, afora ton kanonismo leitoyrgias ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omados. Kai monon to gegonos oti ginetai syzhthsh gia na apofasisqei kai na yparjei enas kanonismos leitoyrgias ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omados apodeiknyei pws dhmioyrgeitai ena neo qesmiko plaisio, ws pros th leitoyrgia ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omados afenos, afeteroy de ws pros th sxesh poy exei h Koinoboyleytikh Omada kai ta organa ths me ton Prwqypoyrgo kai ta alla organa ths ektelestikhs ejoysias.

ZERBONIKOLAKHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, prin apo ligo milhsate, me oristiko kai kathgorhmatiko tropo, gia lysh telesidikh, apotelesmatikh, gia LYSH. Prin apo merikes hmeres, stelexh proskeimena ston Prwqypoyrgo milhsan gia paraithsh toy Andrea Papandreoy kai eklogh neoy Proedroy sto PASOK. Tairiazoyn ayta ta dyo me thn apanthsh poy dwsate prohgoyme- nws;

REPPAS: Epanalambanw kai pali: Ta stelexh sta opoia anaferesqe kai ta exete sto myalo sas (egw den exw ypoch moy poioys akribws ennoeite), ejefrasan tis apoceis toys. O Prwqypoyr- gos ejefrase mia qesh arxhs. Nomizw oti sas diefyge - ekana omws ayth thn epishmansh - otan eipa pws o Prwqypoyrgos diatypwse mia qesh arxhs. H qesh arxhs leei oti otan kaleisai na dwseis lysh se ola ta problhmata, kalo einai na dineis mia safh, oristikh, telesidikh kai kaqarh lysh. Einai aytonohto.

KARAGIANNH: Safh, kaqarh kai apotelesmatikh lysh, qewrei h Kybernhsh, kyrie Ypoyrge...

REPPAS: Kai rizikh, epishs.

KARAGIANNH: ... kai rizikh, qewrei h Kybernhsh oti den apotelei lysh h eklogh Antiproedroy sto PASOK apo to Synedrio me periorismenes armodiothtes;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh, kyria Karagiannh, den pairnei apofaseis gia qemata poy aforoyn stis kommatikes leitoyrgies. Gia ta qemata ayta apofasizei to Kinhma mas me ta organa toy kai en prokeimenw to idio to Synedrio, opoy ta melh toy qa klhqoyn na apofasisoyn.

KACAMPELHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o Prwqypoyrgos o opoios eixe epaggelqei ena neo yfos, toylaxiston, giati xrhsimopoiei grifoys kai talaipwrei emas, ton kosmo, to PASOK, thn koinwnia, ta "talk-shows" kai den leei epiteloys ti qa kanei, na jeroyme oloi mas;

REPPAS: An krinw apo sas, etsi opws sas blepw, kyrie Kacampelh, kaqe allo para talaipwrhmenos deixnete. Alla, qa moy epitrecete na pw...

KACAMPELHS: Ta fainomena apatoyn.

REPPAS: Se sas polla apatoyn! Qa moy epitrecete, omws, na pw oti o Prwqypoyrgos akribws epaggelletai ena neo yfos kai hqos kai ayto sthn prajh to apodeiknyei me to oti exei dwsei ena neo ryqmo sth leitoyrgia twn kybernhtikwn organwn kai sth sxesh poy exei o idios me thn Koinoboyleytikh Omada toy Kinhmatos mas. Exei mia stenh synergasia me to Proedreio ths kai endiaferetai wste na yparjoyn aytes oi diadikasies gia thn chfish toy kanonismoy kai th stenoterh synergasia, sto mellon, ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas kai twn organwn ths me ton Prwqypoyrgo. Bebaiws, oi apofaseis tis opoies lambanei o Prwqypoyrgos, lambanontai me gnwmona - epanalambanw kai pali - to eqniko kai koinwniko symferon kai anakoinwnontai sthn wra poy qewreitai oti einai h katallhlh. Ayto einai kati gia to opoio as epitrecoyme ston Prwqypoyrgo na apofasizei. Kai na mhn toy sterhsoyme ayto to dikaiwma poy exei o kaqe Ellhnas poliths: Na apofasizei dhladh gia qemata sta opoia prepei na parei mia apofash, opote ekeinos nomizei kai na anakoinwnei thn apofash toy, thn wra poy qewrei katallhlh.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa moy epitrecete na anaferqw kai egw sthn omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai na sas pw oti se kapoio shmeio ths omilias toy o k. Prwqypoyrgos anaferei oti "h xwra mas antimetwpizei dyo oysiwdeis eqnikoys kindynoys, enas ek twn opoiwn einai na xasoyme to traino ths eyrwpaikhs enopoihshs". Ti akribws ennoei;

REPPAS: Malista. Kai o allos einai h apeilh toy toyrkikoy epektatismoy. Ws pros ton prwto kindyno poy anaferqhkate, aytos akribws prokyptei apo thn pagkosmiopoi- hsh ths oikonomias kai mporei na odhghsei se apokleismo ths Ellados apo tis diadikasies ths eyrwpaikhs enopoihshs, efoson oi oikonomikoi deiktes h oi ryqmoi anaptyjhs ths xwras mas ysterhsoyn se shmantiko baqmo, wste na mhn yparxei dynatothta oxi taytishs, sygklishs estw, me tis alles megales anaptygmenes xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Aytos einai enas kindynos poy exei epishmanqei kat'epanalhch apo ton Prwqypoyrgo. Epishmainetai pali shmera. H Kybernhsh kineitai sthn kateyqynsh, metajy olwn twn allwn, na petyxei ryqmoys sygklishs, wste na meinei sthn ychlh taxythta enopoihshs ths eyrwpaikhs diadikasias.

KAKABAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o Prwqypoyrgos exei enoxlhqei apo tis dhlwseis poy kanoyn ton teleytaio kairo orismena kybernhtika stelexh; Giati, an krinw apo ena shmeio ths omilias toy, poy leei "kalw oloys sas na stamathsei amesws h genikoterh parasynedriakh parafilologia kai na epikentrwsoyme thn prosoxh mas sta megala problhmata toy topoy". Aisqanetai enoxlhmenos apo tis dhlwseis poy kanoyn, en ocei toy Synedrioy, orismena kybernhtika stelexh;

REPPAS: Kai pali, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, mia qesh arxhs diatypwnei o Prwqypoyrgos, anaferontas ws kyrio kaqhkon mas thn enasxolhsh mas me to kybernhtiko ergo, kaq'oti h apotelesmatikothta mas s'ayton ton tomea einai ayth h opoia qa kriqei apo ton ellhniko lao kai qa kaqorisei thn empistosynh (an qa ananewqei h oxi) toy ellhnikoy laoy pros to komma kai thn Kybernhsh mas.

SKOYRHS: Dyo erwthseis, kyrie Ypoyrge: Prwton, ayrio, oi synanthseis toy k. Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Arsenh kai ton k. Laliwth, ti antikeimeno exoyn;

REPPAS: Oi synanthseis aytes einai sta plaisia twn synergasiwn poy exei o Prwqypoyrgos me Ypoyrgoys kai stelexh.

SKOYRHS: Kai h deyterh erwthsh: Xqes, an den kanw laqos, se mia synenteyjh toy, o Ypoyrgos Ygeias - Pronoias k. Peponhs ejefrase tis antirrhseis toy gia thn ejwterikh politikh stis ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis meta th synanthsh toy Boykoyrestioy. Tonise oti ayto ginetai erhmhn toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy. Kai alla melh ths Kybernhshs, o Ypoyrgos Eqnikhs Amynas sygkekrimena, exoyn zhthsei na synelqoyn ta kybernhtika organa me qema ayto eidika ths ejwterikhs politikhs, opws gia paradeigma epishs o k. Benizelos. Yparxei kati programma- tismeno; Pote qa ginei ayth h synedriash;

REPPAS: Kyrie Skoyrh, ta qemata ejwterikhs politikhs h ta eqnika qemata exoyn, kat'epanalh- ch, apasxolhsei ta kybernhtika organa. Kai bebaiws, exoyn apotelesei antikeimeno syzhthshs kai sth Boylh - opws gnwrizete - h se alla koinoboyleytika organa, opws einai h Diarkhs Koinoboyleytikh Epitroph Ejwterikwn Ypoqesewn ths Boylhs. Alla gia to sygkekrimeno qema poy qetete, prepei na sas pw oti yparxei desmeysh toy Prwqypoyrgoy pws sto epomeno diasthma qa yparjei synedriash, sthn opoia qa ginei ektetamenh syzhthsh sta plaisia toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy gia ta sygkekrimena qemata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o Prwqypoyrgos aisqanetai ahdia gi'ayta poy symbainoyn sto kybernhtiko komma;

REPPAS: Den katalaba thn erwthsh sas, kyrie Stamatopoyle.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sas erwtw an o Prwqypoyrgos aisqanetai ahdia gi'ayta poy symbainoyn sto kybernwn komma.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai yperhfanos poy hgeitai mias Kybernhshs, h opoia sthrizetai apo toso megalo ariqmo boyleytwn, oi opoioi aytoi boyleytes anhkoyn sto kybernwn - opws lete eseis - komma, sto PASOK, to opoio kyberna th megalyterh xronikh periodo, apo th metapoliteysh kai meta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati leei sthn omilia toy o Prwqypoyrgos oti ayta ta opoia ginontai ahdiazoyn to lao.

REPPAS: Lete oti noiwqei ahdia o laos h noiwqei ahdia o k. Shmiths; Ektos an qewreite oti einai taytismenos o k. Shmiths me to lao. To dexomai ayto.

STAMATOPOYLOS: To lao ekproswpei.

REPPAS: Asfalws ton ekproswpei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: An o laos noiwqei ahdia, prepei na noiwqei kai o Prwqypoyrgos.

REPPAS: Kalws! Allh erwthsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh, den noiwqei;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai yperhfanos, poy sthrizetai s'ayto to kybernhtiko komma, poy einai to PASOK, me to sygkekrimeno programma...

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Para to gegonos oti o laos mporei na noiwqei ahdia;

REPPAS: Den nomizw oti o laos noiwqei ahdia. Giati an o laos enoiwqe ayto akribws poy eipate, qa eixe ekfrasei th qesh toy pros thn Kybernhsh. Yparxoyn dhmokratikes diadikasies s'ayth th xwra, kyrie Mpogiopoyle. Eimaste yperhfanoi gi'ayto. Oi Kybernhseis krinontai, anatrepontai, anakaloyntai. O laos einai kyriarxos kai aytos apofasizei. Opws blepete, kyrie Mpogiopoyle, ayto sthn Ellada einai ena kaqestws arketwn xronwn. Kai en pash periptwsei, eimaste yperhfanoi giati exoyme kai emeis symbalei sto na yparxei ayto to kaqestws.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den to lew egw. O Prwqypoyrgos to leei to "o laos ahdiazei" me ayta poy ginontai mesa sto PASOK.

REPPAS: Nomizw oti o kaqenas antilambanetai pws o laos den noiwqei eyxarista, otan brisketai apenanti se fainomena ta opoia den timoyn thn symperifora poy ajiwnei o laos na exoyme oloi, osoi exoyme thn timh na ton ekproswpoyme. An yparxoyn tetoia fainomena, logiko einai na ahdiazei o laos. An den yparxoyn tetoia fainomena, o laos noiwqei yperhfaneia. Fainetai pws tetoia fainomena den exoyn leicei pantelws. Kai exoyme eyqynh oloi s'ayto. OLOI! Exoyme eyqynh oloi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos ta epishmainei.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos epishmainei alhqeies. Giati o Prwqypoyrgos milaei th glwssa ths alhqeias.

GYPARH: Shmera o Prwqypoyrgos leei sthn omilia toy oti o laos den exei anagkh apo eswkommatikh antipoliteysh. Eixe omws anagkh thn eswkommatikh antipoliteysh toy k. Shmith prin dyomish xronia;

REPPAS: O laos, pisteyw, noiwqei oti to PASOK me tis opoies apoceis anaptyssontai stoys kolpoys toy, einai to Kinhma ekeino to opoio mporei na antimetwpisei apotelesmatika ta problhmata toy. Kai na eisqe sigoyroi oti o laos empisteyetai ayto to komma kai empisteyetai ayth thn Kybernhsh.

GYPARH: Shmera omws exoyme enan Prwqypoyrgo poy leei oti prepei na stamathsei h eswkommatikh antipoliteysh, otan prin dyo xronia thn egkainiase o idios.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos den eipe na stamathsei h eswkommatikh antipoliteysh. O Prwqypoyrgos - exoyme pei kat'epanalhch - akoyei me prosoxh kai sebetai oles tis apoceis. Kai einai Prwqypoyrgos o opoios yperaspizetai ta idia pragmata, tis idies qeseis, tis idies arxes poy yperaspizotan kai otan den htan Prwqypoyrgos. Kai ayta twra, poy einai Prwqypoyrgos, se megalo baqmo ta exei dromologhsei wste na ginoyn pragmatikothta. Exei kaneis antirrhsh s'ayto; Fantazomai, oxi. Eyxaristw poly gia th symfwnia sas!

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den symfwnhsame!

KACAMPELHS: Otan paroyme kai emeis kybernhtikes qeseis, qa sas apanthsoyme!

REPPAS: To eyxomai, kyrie Kacampelh, gia na mporesw kai egw na ginw dhmosiografos kai tote na allajoyn oi "symmaxies"! Na "symmaxw" egw me ta problhmata kai eseis na eisqe apologhths!

KACAMPELHS: Na rwthsw: O ypo syzhthsh neos nomos gia thn eyqynh Ypoyrgwn, pote qa janasyzhthqei sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio;

REPPAS: O k. Benizelos epedeije eyaisqhsies, syzhthse me synadelfoys toy boyleytes diatajeis toy sygkekrimenoy nomosxedioy. Exei thn proqesh na qesei to qema kai pali sta melh toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy. Qa ginei kai ayto. O programmatismos twn synedriasewn toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy ginetai me tetoio tropo, wste na antimetwpizontai ta problhmata poy kata proteraiothta h kata mia swsth ierarxhsh toys, prepei na antimetwpisqoyn.

KACAMPELHS: H qesh ths Kybernhshs epi ths oysias toy nomosxedioy exei allajei;

REPPAS: H qesh ths Kybernhshs exei ekfrasqei apo to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, to opoio exei parei apofash. Ean teqei enwpion toy idioy qematos kai pali to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, qa labei tis apofaseis toy.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na epanaferw ena palio qema: Me dedomeno oti exoyme allages, nees allages sto idiokthsiako kaqestws ths AGET, erwtw ean h Kybernhsh opws eixe desmeyqei kai proeklogika kai stis programmatikes ejaggelies ths, qa epanaferei thn AGET sto Dhmosio.

REPPAS: H qesh ths Kybernhshs exei diatypwqei. Qa kanei o,ti to kalytero toso gia thn AGET oso kai gia to dhmosio symferon.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete pote;

REPPAS: To "pote", oxi. Den to gnwrizw. Gnwrizw omws oti kaqhmerinws h Kybernhsh yperaspizetai to dhmosio symferon. Prin teleiwsoyme, na sas anakoinwsw oti o Prwqypoyrgos dexqhke shmera thn antiproswpeia toy Swmateioy twn oikodomwn. Qa ekdoqei sxetikh kybernhtikh anakoinwsh, h opoia kai qa sas dianemhqei, eyqys amesws.
Sas eyxaristw poly.

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